Highrises Y/N? (Allentown, Bethlehem, York: apartments, house, employment)

[Explorer Dave]

The link below is a very good article, entitled “Do High-Rise Towers Destroy Community?” I am prompted to post it here because of seeing news about a 33 story highrise planned for downtown Allentown. While it is a mixed use building, which is good, and I am a big fan of density and walkability, I am not overly excited by this news. What I like are more human scale communities and NEITHER suburban sprawl or high rises are human scale. IMHO

What is human scale? Look at much of Europe or any dense community that was largely built before cars OR elevators. Actually I don't mind an occasional highrise, but often, too much, is too much. That's why I don't really want to live in places like New York or Philly. (although it would be nice to be close to such cities)

I know that the Lehigh Valley has a lot of sprawl and that is unfortunate, but it also seems to have a lot of human scale walkable density, in Allentown, Easton, Bethlehem and several of the smaller communities too. I just hope that area planners don't get the idea that the solution to sprawl is highrise towers. Density Yes, walkabilty Yes, mixed use absolutely, offices and living space above shops, I love it! But lot's of highrises NO! Of course the news I saw is just about one, but I really hope the area doesn't start going that direction.

High Rise Buildings and Community Development | Sustainable Cities Collective

[PacoMartin]

Originally Posted by Explorer Dave

I know that the Lehigh Valley has a lot of sprawl and that is unfortunate, but it also seems to have a lot of human scale walkable density, in Allentown, Easton, Bethlehem and several of the smaller communities too. I just hope that area planners don't get the idea that the solution to sprawl is highrise towers.

True high rises are fairly expensive to build and become offices or homes of the very rich. I suspect that only a handful if any will be built in the Lehigh Valley.The biggest danger is the proliferation of bulky 10-14 story buildings around the world.

[Explorer Dave]

Don't get me wrong, I do actually like highrises, just not a collection of so many in one place that it cut's you off from nature and feels totally out of scale with humans. My favorite building height is 3 to 5 stories, up to 7 isn't so bad. After that too many in one area taller than that feels out of human scale to me. So I hope you are right that not too many will be built in the Lehigh Valley.

The type of building I really hate though I know Lehigh Valley has plenty of, all of America does. They are hard to escape in the car culture that we have built since the 1940's. To me this type of building has destroyed communities all across the USA. And that is the single story strip mall with big asphalt parking lots in front of them. What an ugly and bad idea those have been!

Give me street front shops with a few stories of office and/or living space above them over a single story strip mall any day! Fortunately I know that the Lehigh Valley has a fair amount of this type too.

[PacoMartin]

Originally Posted by Explorer Dave

And that is the single story strip mall with big asphalt parking lots in front of them. What an ugly and bad idea those have been!

Are you talking about a 400,000 square foot shopping center with a Walmart, Giant, Home Depot, TJ Maxx, and other stores.

Or a much smaller shopping center with a 50,000 sq foot Redners and 25,000 square feet of smaller stores.

Or do you just dislike strip centers?


I lived in a Columbia MD, who tried to do away with strip centers completely. It turns out people may not admire them, but they miss them when they are not available.

[Explorer Dave]

I just dislike strip centers.

I also lived in Columbia MD I liked that they had villages with village centers and higher density housing closest to the village centers My favorite at that time (1981-86) was Joseph Square, at least it was two stories. But Columbia was built after an updated suburban sprawl model, not an updated pre-car village or city model, so it wouldn't have worked as well. People absolutely need cars to get around in Columbia, so if you have to have a car to get to any shops, stores, restaurants, etc. you need a place to park them.

I remember once taking a bus from King's Contrivance (where I lived) to the Columbia Mall it took well over an hour with a required bus change at another village center (I forget which one) driving it took me about ten minutes to do the same trip, so I never took the bus again.

Columbia looks very pretty and I think it won some prizes for city planning in it's early days. But now I think it's planning and design is actually pretty bad.

[Explorer Dave]

For any one interested here is a TED talk that I think is spot on: James Howard Kunstler: The ghastly tragedy of the suburbs | Video on TED.com

[PacoMartin]

The City (1939) is about the evils of urban life, and the idealized planned suburbs. Greenbelt was actually a planned community 30 years before Columbia.

[Explorer Dave]

Originally Posted by PacoMartin

The City (1939) is about the evils of urban life, and the idealized planned suburbs. Greenbelt was actually a planned community 30 years before Columbia.

There is good and bad urban planning, but suburbs have really destroyed even more than this country. They have created a way of life that can not be sustained. There is a lot of concern (and rightly so) about climate change, but I am actually more concerned about oil and other resources that we are going through at an alarming rate. Our car and consumer based culture can not be sustained long term.

[julian17033]

The reach of suburbs seemingly never has it's thirst for growth quenched thus using more and more resources.

With this being said I refuse to live in a high density area.

I do not want people living either below or above me nor do I want their living space connected to mine in any way, shape or form
My house is located in Allentown near Emmaus in a nice mid century neighborhood of very well kept homes.
My front and back yards are my haven where I escape the annoyance of having to be around others.

Neither my wife or myself are recluses but we simply grow tired of being around the noise, stress, and over stimulation that we find at our places of employment on a daily basis.

I'm not old, I'm 47.

When I was in my twenties I lived in downtown Denver in various apartments and highrises.
When I needed to go to the grocery store I went to one that was located in the bottom of a large building.
It was a King Soopers which, like Turkey Hill, is owned by Kroger.

I took the bus to and from the grocery store and enjoyed my time living that particular lifestyle.
I simply do not want to ever live in a densely populated area ever again.

I demand my space and so do my neighbors.

There is no argument despite it's validity to push me into living in anything other than a single family dwelling with a sizable front and back yard.

[toobusytoday]

I like visiting city's very much and I could picture living in a house within the borough limits of our small town, but I'm with Julian that I really do enjoy our yard and my neighborhood. What made Bethlehem able to be revitalized compared to Allentown? I like visiting Bethlehem but only go to Allentown if I have something specific to do.

I watched the TED talk, Explorer Dave, but found his remarks on people that lived in developments condescending and rude. There's some sort of belief that people that choose to live in developments are some sort of homogenous group. What I've found is that people are people, no matter where they live and each of us has our own beliefs, back stories and goals for the future. My neighbors are just wonderful and we talk daily, borrow things from each other, support each other etc. I think small, walkable towns are better land use wise then developments but I would never want to live in a city. My daughter, OTOH, loves living in a city and has lived in a few huge ones. Still, when she comes home she talks about how wonderful it is to have space, fresh and inexpensive vegetables and a pretty view.