Bethlehem Township has no Center (Freedom, Madison: cul-de-sac, apartments, condos)

[sossbee]

Having grown up here, it has always bothered me that Bethlehem Township is just a collection of houses and shopping centers that ring Bethlehem proper. Historically speaking, there's no Steel glory or football history or tradition. Geographically speaking, there's no where that's worth walking and there is no center. Everything is dangerous to walk to as there are no sidewalks on William Penn Highway. The LANTA bus stops are nothing more than sticks in awkward intervals along major roads without sidewalks or benches, to alienate those who rely on public transportation. The area near the Blue, which is prone to flooding, at least has buildings close, but there's no store or market due to zoning. I only live 2 miles from Freedom High School, but took the bus when I went to school there. Even the crossing guard at Farmersville is a complete joke. She lets one kid cross her entire shift, but stops traffic to let buses, parents dropping their kids off, go in and out.

Shouldn't we have bike trails and encourage more smart growth? There is hope with this "Madison Farms" development near Route 33 which will include mixed use shopping/housing.

[SteelCityRising]

You've just described most of newer suburbia in Pennsylvania---not walkable, poorly-planned, aesthetically-un appealing, and enticing to the lowest common denominators who favor bigger square footage for their money spent over any other criteria. I grew up in a similar environment to this and still have yet to see what advantages living in such conditions afford one over living in an established walkable borough, city, or town. I used to run along a busy four-lane sidewalkless commuter belt adjacent to my parents' subdivision growing up. It was extremely dangerous and unpleasant. Now I can head out my front door and run for miles in any direction on sidewalks because I live in a responsibly-planned and ecologically-sustainable city.

"Smart Growth" won't be happening on a large scale in Pennsylvania anytime soon. Money talks.

[toobusytoday]

Originally Posted by sossbee

Having grown up here, it has always bothered me that Bethlehem Township is just a collection of houses and shopping centers that ring Bethlehem proper. Historically speaking, there's no Steel glory or football history or tradition. Geographically speaking, there's no where that's worth walking and there is no center. Everything is dangerous to walk to as there are no sidewalks on William Penn Highway. The LANTA bus stops are nothing more than sticks in awkward intervals along major roads without sidewalks or benches, to alienate those who rely on public transportation. The area near the Blue, which is prone to flooding, at least has buildings close, but there's no store or market due to zoning. I only live 2 miles from Freedom High School, but took the bus when I went to school there. Even the crossing guard at Farmersville is a complete joke. She lets one kid cross her entire shift, but stops traffic to let buses, parents dropping their kids off, go in and out.

Shouldn't we have bike trails and encourage more smart growth? There is hope with this "Madison Farms" development near Route 33 which will include mixed use shopping/housing.

I'm not sure what your point is. This is typical suburbia. If you don't like it, than don't move to it. We lived in a similar area in Delaware county. I would say most of Parkland school district is like this also.

[blazerj]

Originally Posted by sossbee

Having grown up here, it has always bothered me that Bethlehem Township is just a collection of houses and shopping centers that ring Bethlehem proper. Historically speaking, there's no Steel glory or football history or tradition. Geographically speaking, there's no where that's worth walking and there is no center. Everything is dangerous to walk to as there are no sidewalks on William Penn Highway. The LANTA bus stops are nothing more than sticks in awkward intervals along major roads without sidewalks or benches, to alienate those who rely on public transportation. The area near the Blue, which is prone to flooding, at least has buildings close, but there's no store or market due to zoning. I only live 2 miles from Freedom High School, but took the bus when I went to school there. Even the crossing guard at Farmersville is a complete joke. She lets one kid cross her entire shift, but stops traffic to let buses, parents dropping their kids off, go in and out.

Shouldn't we have bike trails and encourage more smart growth? There is hope with this "Madison Farms" development near Route 33 which will include mixed use shopping/housing.

What's your point? I grew up in a town that is 140+ years old and is very historic and does not have a town center. People there do not walk anywhere.

[sossbee]

My point is that because of this Bethlehem Township will never achieve a renaissance like the city of Bethlehem one day because it doesn't have a walkable grid or access to anything by foot. It will just a place to pass through.

Furthermore, this is not typical suburbia. Those would be streetcar suburb towns with little main streets. This is postwar American exurbia.

[toobusytoday]

Call it what you will, it's not that unusual. I agree with you though that it is hard to change a place, that is not more more than a cluster of houses, into a town. When we made our last move having a town nearby as a hub for our school district was on our priority list. It's hard to have a Halloween parade without a main street!

[SteelCityRising]

I'm a bit torn on this issue, actually. My fear is that if Bethlehem Township were to build its own faux town center/lifestyle center/"new downtown" thingy to provide its residents with one centralized location to meet, greet, shop, dine, play, skate, imbibe, see a movie, and even live/work, then this would directly compete with the CITY of Bethlehem since many who live in those suburban subdivisions probably currently trek into the CITY whenever they want to do any of those activities since they are so close. If Bethlehem Township were to work on planning a "mixed-use town center", then that would help to provide people living there with a "sense of place", so to speak; however, I'm not certain the struggling traditional Main Street business districts could survive on their own just being supported by city residents while all of the suburbanites pranced and skipped around their new "fake downtown in the 'burbs" town center.

I used to live in Fairfax County, Virginia, home to well over a million people who mostly lived on a poorly-planned tangle of cul-de-sacs, not unlike many of newer post-WWII suburban areas here in Pennsylvania. I lived in the community of Reston, which had almost 70,000 people and was one of the biggest suburbs of DC. Its "solution" to residents not really having a downtown or a "sense of place" was to build Reston Town Center, a massive mixed-use development with a movie theater, ice skating rink, bandshell, fountains, playground, restaurants, bars, shops, services, offices, condos, apartments, townhouses, etc. In many respects that has been a huge success overall, but it still doesn't feel "organic" (i.e. developing WITH the community instead of developing BESIDE it). It still feels sterile, bland, homogenized, and like an open-air outlet mall (with taller buildings). It is surrounded by wide, busy roadways, and most Restonians drive there for that reason. It failed to conjure up images in my mind of leaving the house Sunday morning, walking to church, walking to brunch afterwards, walking after that to skate while mom and dad, watched, etc. as is what happens in a true "community". Reston was too far removed from other traditional "Main Street" districts for its Reston Town Center to negatively impact their fortunes much, if any, but if Bethlehem Township were to build a similar project I'm worried it would cause a mini-recession in the city proper of Bethlehem.

Welcome to the Reston Town Center.

[Gettingouttahere]

Originally Posted by sossbee

My point is that because of this Bethlehem Township will never achieve a renaissance like the city of Bethlehem one day because it doesn't have a walkable grid or access to anything by foot. It will just a place to pass through.

Furthermore, this is not typical suburbia. Those would be streetcar suburb towns with little main streets. This is postwar American exurbia.

Not sure where you think Bethlehem Township came from. There can't be a renaissance if there wasn't something in the first place.

[toobusytoday]

Originally Posted by Gettingouttahere

Not sure where you think Bethlehem Township came from. There can't be a renaissance if there wasn't something in the first place.

I agree. A clump of houses does not a town make.

[PacoMartin]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

Bethlehem Township were to build a similar project I'm worried it would cause a mini-recession in the city proper of Bethlehem.

Bethlehem Township has a fair amount of shopping already (404 acres of commercial zoned land vs 687 acres in City of Bethlehem proper). The Township is a typical development that went up in population by a factor of 400% in 50 years. City of Bethlehem is the same population as it was 50 years ago.


The city is expected to grow by 20% over the next 30 years without increasing it's geographic boundaries. There is going to be quite a lot of development on the South side with the new tax incentives. I don't think a town center in the township is going to have a detrimental effect.