U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Pennsylvania > Lehigh Valley
 [Register]
Lehigh Valley Allentown-Bethlehem-Easton
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-03-2016, 09:25 AM
 
403 posts, read 853,149 times
Reputation: 722

Advertisements

With the region growing why is it impossible to get passenger train lines from the LV to NYC and Philly? Currently the only mass transit option is busing, which is beyond terrible depending on the company or commuting to an NJT station.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-03-2016, 09:29 AM
 
Location: MMU->ABE->ATL->ASH
9,230 posts, read 18,554,555 times
Reputation: 10201
Train to NYC would take to long (Slow), and wound not go often enough to satisfied the time range the travelers want.

Only way to Philly would be to make costly right of ways, would also be slow, with few riders.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-03-2016, 04:53 PM
 
1,189 posts, read 2,652,585 times
Reputation: 929
Too expensive. Existing rail lines cannot handle the capacity and speed requirements. Using existing rail you'd be either competing for space with slow freight trains or stuck behind NJ Transit trains making tons of stops in NJ. Acquiring new right of way for new rail lines would cost a fortune and would be fought by NIMBYs tooth and nail all the way. To make it work time-wise, it would have to have a few stops in the Lehigh Valley and then run non-stop to Manhattan. Otherwise the bus is faster.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-03-2016, 04:54 PM
 
252 posts, read 537,004 times
Reputation: 70
Agree I think a train would take way too long to get to NY
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-03-2016, 05:33 PM
Status: "Wokeness is just a fear of freedom .. and of responsibility" (set 13 days ago)
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna. (birthplace)
14,365 posts, read 8,781,183 times
Reputation: 18417
It's a combination of economic, technical and political obstacles; all addressable given enough time, but the process will be both roundabout and costly.

The Lehigh Valley lost its last rail passenger service (to Philadelphia) in the early 1980's, when SEPTA dropped service to its outermost ring of counties (Northampton, Lehigh, Berks and Chester); Service from Allentown to New York expired about fifteen years before that. The former Central of New Jersey line to Jersey City and Newark has been taken up, (though it's paralleled by an active -- and congested freight line); and the Bethlehem-Lansdale line, while mostly intact, has been severed.

Developing service along the lines of the current Philadelphia-Harrisburg service is an entirely different proposition from what the public has been led to believe; that line has no freight service to speak of, and was electrified (at a high capital cost) back in the late 1930's. And perhaps most important of all, it lies within one state, with the state capital at one end, and its largest city at the other. That draws the attention of lots of politicians.

Prospects for service to New York from Allentown, let alone Reading and Harrisburg, are further clouded by the fact that freight service on that line roughly tripled in frequency when Conrail diverted traffic from a parallel line via Columbia and Trenton in the early 1980's. Freight and passenger trains don't mix well due to the differences in the speeds and starting/stopping characteristics of the two.

In a healthier political climate, current New Jersey Transit (NJT) service to Hackettstown could be extended to Philipsburg (as already envisioned) and dormant local trackage could be used to get as far as Allentown; re-establishing the Philadelphia service also shouldn't be that much of a physical obstacle. But as with plans to restore service between New York and Scranton/Wilkes-Barre, the presence of a state boundary complicates things, since it's highly unlikely the service could pay for itself, and politicians always think in terms of benefits and largesse for their own constituents.

Last edited by 2nd trick op; 12-03-2016 at 06:43 PM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-03-2016, 08:38 PM
 
Location: Levittown
809 posts, read 699,485 times
Reputation: 482
You don't even have a train to Philly from up there. Philly is closer to LV than NYC. I would think they would have a train going to Philly before going to NYC.

I'm not sure what the deal is with Hackettstown and Phillipsburg connecting.

Allentown, the biggest of the 3 cities in Lehigh, is 60 miles north of Philadelphia and 90 miles west of NYC. You have a few interstates that connect the metros, but in terms of mileage it's nuts either way. Driving more than 50 miles to work one way is insane. Mass transit takes longer to go that many miles than it does to drive it.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-04-2016, 09:19 AM
 
10,689 posts, read 11,550,180 times
Reputation: 5863
Clinton NJ to Port Authority Bus Terminal is 56 miles. Right now it is considerably faster to take a Transbridge bus from Clinton to PABT than it is to take a train from Clinton to Penn Central.

One absolute requirement for train service to the west of Clinton, NJ is that the train becomes at least as fast as the bus from Clinton. The bus is 60-85 minutes depending on the time of day, but the train is 101-111 minutes.

I know that NJTrains purchased 35 ALP-45DP, a type of single cab dual-mode locomotive being built by Bombardier Transportation. That should help by giving One Seat Ride to Manhattan. But looking at the schedule the one seat ride is actually a longer trip.

First train of morning (change at Newark) 101 minutes
Depart : ANNANDALE at 5:55 AM Board : Train 5710 toward NEWARK PENN STATION Arrive : NEWARK PENN STATION at 7:10 AM
Depart : NEWARK PENN STATION at 7:18 AM Board : Train 3216 toward NEW YORK PENN STATION Arrive : NEW YORK PENN STATION at 7:36 AM

One seat ride (no change at Newark) 108 minutes and 111 minutes
Depart : ANNANDALE at 9:22 AM Board : Train 5170 toward NEW YORK PENN STATION Arrive : NEW YORK PENN STATION at 11:10 AM
Depart : ANNANDALE at 12:22 PM Board : Train 5176 toward NEW YORK PENN STATION Arrive : NEW YORK PENN STATION at 2:13 PM

Last edited by PacoMartin; 12-04-2016 at 09:30 AM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-04-2016, 09:26 PM
Status: "Wokeness is just a fear of freedom .. and of responsibility" (set 13 days ago)
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna. (birthplace)
14,365 posts, read 8,781,183 times
Reputation: 18417
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYtoNJtoPA View Post
You don't even have a train to Philly from up there. Philly is closer to LV than NYC. I would think they would have a train going to Philly before going to NYC.

I'm not sure what the deal is with Hackettstown and Phillipsburg connecting.

Allentown, the biggest of the 3 cities in Lehigh, is 60 miles north of Philadelphia and 90 miles west of NYC. You have a few interstates that connect the metros, but in terms of mileage it's nuts either way. Driving more than 50 miles to work one way is insane. Mass transit takes longer to go that many miles than it does to drive it.
The passenger trains some people remember from the Fifties served a very different market from what has since evolved. The last "traditional" passenger trains in the Lehigh Valley were, appropriately enough, operated by the Lehigh Valley Railroad, which ran from Jersey City to Buffalo vja Wilkes-Barre. The last runs were made in the winter of 1960-61; to get to and from Philadelphia, passengers transferred to the Reading's commuter service at Bethlehem.

The Reading, and its subsidiary Central of New Jersey also operated what were called "accommodation" trains between Jersey City and both Harrisburg (via Reading) and Mauch Chunk (renamed Jim Thorpe); there was also one single overnight schedule between Washington, Philadelphia, Allentown, Scranton and Syracuse; all of these were abandoned sometime in the Fifties.

Point being, with all these services, plus bus connections, it was possible to get from just about anywhere to anywhere without an automobile, provided one had the time. But both as automobiles became more affordable, and a societal stigma against women driving alone diminished, the market disappeared. The driving force behind the resurgence in commuter train service, in the Lehigh Valley as everywhere else, is urban congestion. Since the capital and start-up costs for a new operation would be very high, public sector participation would be necessary, and since multiple entities, both public and private, are involved, the situation becomes very complicated.

Last edited by 2nd trick op; 12-04-2016 at 09:47 PM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-05-2016, 06:43 AM
 
Location: USA
6,231 posts, read 5,936,450 times
Reputation: 10685
I can't see why anyone would want a NYC commute from the Valley. For me personally that would be hellacious, but others are ok with it. I think the goal should be to create good jobs in the Valley so people who live here can work here.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-08-2016, 09:29 PM
 
2,834 posts, read 4,953,645 times
Reputation: 2072
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyonpa View Post
Train to NYC would take to long (Slow), and wound not go often enough to satisfied the time range the travelers want.

Only way to Philly would be to make costly right of ways, would also be slow, with few riders.
Yup. Just look at the train from Hackettstown to NYP. It's almost 2:30 long. That's much worse than a bus.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Pennsylvania > Lehigh Valley

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top