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Eeesh that was a very negative and assumptive comment about NJ/NYC'ers. Do you happen to know anything about NJ and the high-price way of life here? Even the "successful" folks who you may be referring to are struggling with the economy, poor schools, and corruption in this state. Don't assume people move to PA because they can't "keep up"...everyone under the sun in this state knows how living and working here can very much be in vain if you are trying to raise a family comfortably. I think that if you live anywhere your whole life and move to another state with no family or friends, anyone would feel depressed. I will add an element of difference though and say that, yes, I could see how moving to certain areas in PA from NJ or NY would be an adjustment in some ways, and would likely be felt the same the other way around as well.
I'm talking about in aggregate, there's no reason for you to assume I'm speaking of you and your family in particular. And the economy makes things a struggle for everyone right now but you know as well as I do that this mass exodus occurred while the economy was good.
Poor schools in New Jersey? I don't think so. The bad ones are right where you'd expect them to be, in municipalities or cities where there are an insufficient number of parents who are engaged with their childrens' education. Schools can't work miracles. But the northern NJ suburban schools are certainly good. Now what is true is that someone who works in metro NYC and travels all the way from the LV so they can live in a 3 bedroom suburban home with a lawn could not live that lifestyle in NYC. Most likely they'd have to live in an area where the schools aren't very good and space is more cramped.
But the Lehigh Valley has the same pecking order in terms of housing and schools even if the economics are different. Long commuting transplants simply jump a few rungs on the ladder by taking advantage of the disparities between the two markets and one can't very well expect everyone to take well to a mass influx into nice suburbs from people who for all intents and purposes are a different class of people even if their paychecks suggest otherwise.
So what I'm saying is that I empathize with anyone who tries to fit in and is finding it difficult in a new place. But I also understand why there would be some contempt for transplants as a group. Especially if some percentage of them are there "reluctantly" and have an unjustified feeling of superiority over those who have chosen to live and work there.
Why on Earth would anyone expect everyone to be pleased when there is a mass influx of out of state people who come for cheaper houses rather than for the way of life that the natives enjoy and are accustomed to? The reaction is going to be especially negative if there is an element among the newcomers that fancies itself superior in some way, because let's face it, the out of staters driven to the LV make those long commutes to nicer houses because they are not very successful people in the metro NYC labor market where incomes are higher, but transplant so that they can live like they are. Meanwhile people who choose to live AND work in the LV because they like it there - and likely make less money as a result - are subjected to what are often less professionally successful transplants looking down on the place.
I understand this to a degree. What I don't understand is the people that come to PA from NJ and NYC, complain about how things are there, then push for the same stupid policies, vote for the same idiots, and demand the same social programs that are at root of all the problems from where they left. It's like having someone leave NJ, move to the Lehigh Valley, then vote for Corzine's clone for governor. I just don't understand that. This is supposed to be a place to start over and get away from that mess.
If things don't change and everyone is unhappy after a year then no amount of house or money is worth staying.
I agree with this 100%.
If after so many years you're still not comfortable, and you've realized that you want to be with your family, I would do whatever humanly possible to get back. I realize times are tough, but I definitely wouldn't "accept the fact that this may be forever."
People always complain about how much they miss their old neighborhood and often times make the mistake of compairing their old way of life to their new way of life. If thats the case why move? When I moved out of the NYC to the lower hudson valley of NY. I knew things were going to be different and I just accepted it for what is was. No matter how different things may now be for me. I always keep one thing in mind. Home is where my wife and kids are at.
I understand what you're saying. And believe me I've heard the majority of that from others. And I can understand how some here may feel. Thing that's important is to realize that we don't all have that attitude & we didn't all come here with the same intentions. The superior part I've heard about before, that we're all trying to make this place like where we came from, that we're elitist, we all own brand new McMansions, new cars, we're all rich, we all live here &w ork in NYC, etc. I have never tried to make this area like where I lived, that would be unrealistic, you can't do that anywhere, just doesn't happen. This is PA not NJ & NJ is not PA. We didn't move here to escape any crime or congestion or anything like that. The first place we looked into buying was in NJ. South Jersey was too far for my husband to travel to work (he works in Somerset Cty) & North Jersey didn't have anything we liked & was too expensive. Any real estate searches online for the Phillipsburg area will return hits for Easton on some web sites, which is what happened. Once I saw Easton was in our range I expanded the search, reluctantly, but at the time our landlord was selling our place & we couldn't afford to buy or rent anymore, no relatives had room for us so it was either buy or who knows what would have happened. It was a lousy situtation we were in but when it came to security of owning a h ome or an unknown future of where our shelter would come from, we took a home wherever we could afford it. If the home was in any other state & it wasn't a far ride to my husband's job we would have taken it, no matter what state.
We didn't have a child when we moved here, we didn't think we'd ever have one so schools or raising a child here wasn't ever a thought. It's now one important factor about being here. My son barely knows his grandparents & it kills me. We had the option to purchase (or even build) a newer home but we chose a house that next year will turn 100 yrs old. It wasn't in the best shape so we've been remodeling it & bringing it back to life. No "McMansion" for us, plus I prefer older homes. No brand new car. I don't even own a cellphone. My husband works in NJ, same place he always has, not NYC. The ride for him is maybe 25 min more than it was before, so not a long commute, no more than it was previously. We don't feel superior to anyone, in any state, in any area, why would we? I'm a stay at home mom, my priorities during the day are taking care of my son, cleaning the house, working on my home business, laundry, cooking dinner......I don't see how that's impeding on anyone's life here, we don't bother anyone, we're just like anyone else trying to make ends meet & keep a roof over our heads, granted my husband has a nice salary but we're still doing it day by day like anyone else would. We don't have the stereotypical "joisey" accent like people would think we should. We just don't fit into the stereotypes that I constantly hear we should be.
As for being successful, I don't understand that one. My husband works in the same job, his work hasn't changed just because we moved, we didn't move because he was unsuccessful or anything like that. In 2004 if someone said we could buy & own a home in, say, Texas, I would have jumped on it. After living 30 yrs as a renter & dealing with hellish landlords & nightmarish tenants, I would have done anything to get out of it. The last upstairs neighbor I lived under would go crazy sometimes & taked about murdering people. I used to keep a knife & a baseball bat near the front door out of fear & even filed a police complaint about her threates of murdering people..........yes I jumped at the chance to own & get out of it any way possible. I couldn't possibly go into what it's like for us, or me, now to be here alone the majority of the time knowing my son isn't around his extended family not knowing them, missing 5 yrs of my parents life especially now that they're getting older & have been sick, constantly seeing online & in person people throw those stereotypes of us day in & day out. I read one comment online from someone who said anyone coming over the bridge with 2 license plates should be shot at..I kid you not. It gets to you after a while.
Our neighbor across the street was very nice to us after we moved in, came over to talk intitially & during the convo he asked where we were from, when we said NJ the whole thing went downhill, he clammed up & pretty much walked away, and I'm not exaggerating here, this is what happened. It's like you have a bullseye on your back if you say you moved here from NJ, not sure about the NY'ers. I worry about my son, when he gets older will his friends take on their parent's attitude if they find his parents (us) are from NJ? Will there be the same animosity? Will he have problems? It runs through my head late at night when everyone else is asleep, it plagues me for lack of a better term. Was it a mistake to move o ut of state? Yes. Was it a mistake to buy? No.
I have been doing everything in my power to move back but I can't. We can't do it right now. Who knows if it will ever happen which is why being here forever may be an unfortunate fact of life for me. The way the economy is we can't flip this house & buy back in NJ whatsoever. I look at the home listings every single day & don't see anything promising. We can't get a loan right now & it's doubtful our home will sell for what we owe on it. If I only knew the market was going to be this bad & first time home buyers would have an easier time in 2009 I would have waited, but how was I to know? How was I to know people here would be like this towards us? I never even heard of any rift between the states beforehand, the thought never even crossed my mind as even being fathomable whatsoever. A few months after moving here I had someone tell me welcome to the area & then ran down a long list of things not to do as a "tansplant" such as keeping my yard clean since the newcomers have dirty yards, don't be rude when standing in line at a store, & all these things that it was assumed that I'd do since I came from NJ. My response was "HUH????" I had no clue what they were talking about. I would say the prejudice against the new residents is one biggie that has made life miserable for me, it's hurt a lot & has pushed my decision to tr like hell to get us out of here even though I love my house. I can't put into words what it's like, I deal with it, I do what I can to make it normal for my son so he's not exposed to any of it. But for the time being if this is where we have to live then unfortunately we have to be here. I'm not out to make this area like the one I came from, I'm not out to change anything, I'm not out to live a lifestyle that I couldn't back in NJ (my lifestyle hasn't changed), I'm not out to get a big gigantic brand new home, success, or lack thereof, had nothing to di with our move here, we're not all thugs or gangs, we're not all involved with drugs or crime, we just want to live peacefully & make ends meet like everyone else. I've mentioned this countless of times on message boards & in person to no avail. It gets tiresome trying to constantly justify & explain myself to the point where I just want out. It's a horrible feeling to not feel like your house is a home & to be told you're this & that because someone else bases their opinion of you on someone else or a few bad apples they came in contact with. I love my house & my family with all my heart & God knows I've tried like hell to do whatever I can to be happy here & make it happy for my family but it can't happen if I'm constantly told what type of person I am based on what everyone else does. I don't care if someone else moved here because they were unsuccessful in NY, of if they knoecked down a forest to build a gigantic home they couldn't get elsewhere...I'm not like that.
I can understand hoe some can have the animosity but they also have to understand that we're not all like that. I'm not out to hurt anyone, I;'m not out to change anyone's way of life, I'm not out to take anything away from anyone here. I just want a peaceful normal existance like everyone else, but the constant berating & being far away from everyone takes its toll after a while. I'm not mad at anyone here in PA, they're not obligated to like me at all, I'm saddened by those who fling stereotypes & at myself for being in the unfortunate position of having to own a home so far away. Sorry this was long but I don't know how else to explain, I've done it so many times online & in person that I'm tapped out, I have nothing else to say, I guess if some are going to think we're the stereotypical joisey accent Soprano-like drug thugs who moved to escape crime & own a mcmansion then they're going to believe that no matter what I say, scary thing is I realize this & knowing it will always be this way is what keeps me up at night.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eephus
Why on Earth would anyone expect everyone to be pleased when there is a mass influx of out of state people who come for cheaper houses rather than for the way of life that the natives enjoy and are accustomed to? The reaction is going to be especially negative if there is an element among the newcomers that fancies itself superior in some way, because let's face it, the out of staters driven to the LV make those long commutes to nicer houses because they are not very successful people in the metro NYC labor market where incomes are higher, but transplant so that they can live like they are. Meanwhile people who choose to live AND work in the LV because they like it there - and likely make less money as a result - are subjected to what are often less professionally successful transplants looking down on the place.
Everyone got priced out of NJ. EVERYONE. Those who stayed, even if they're making over 100k per year, are hurting in one way or another financially, or up to their necks in debt, sans the poor economy right now. The only way to properly thrive like a normal human being for some was to leave. Not everyone came to PA either. I knew many who left for Virginia, some to North Carolina, my own brother in law moved to NC. They choked people out. Just before we moved they were building homes a few blocks away on the waterfront that STARTED at 1 mil. Rent was over $1,000/mo for a 1 or 2 bed apt. How could any of us continue to live financially like that? We couldn't, we certainly couldn't advance if we wanted to unless we ("we" in general) had a home left to us with no mortgage to pay, were left monmey by someone, or lived by leeching off the system, or got lucky & won the lottery). Even those of us who worked 2 or 3 jobs never saw anything left from our paychecks & couldn't save up to move on to better things when we were getting hit by high insurance all around & expensive rent/mortgages. We came from Woodbridge, hardly a high crime area, great place to raise a family, but we couldn't do it if we were blue collar, & I'm talking just owning a little 40 yr old cape cod, not a brand new mansion. I keep hearing prices are going down, however I look at the MLS every single day & I keep seeing homes going for well over 350k all over the place over there. Choked out would be an understatement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattjd
I moved here from Essex Co. There are a lot of people moving to PA from NJ and NYC. It's the high taxes, high cost of housing, terrible schools, etc. It's a real shame. I hope PA doesn't become what NJ and NYC have become. I would have to move to Ohio then. I don't mind it here at all. The traffic is light, I live close to Rt.22 which is great for work. I wish there were more things to do though. The little bit of shopping around MacArthur Rd. just isn't enough for me.
Mawbey,
Your post made me feel sad for you and ticked off at the people you've met that have not greeted you warmly. When we moved here our neighbors came to the door with food and their whole family so we could meet them. It was our easiest move ever. I wish you had had a similar experience. Our neighbors are a mix of people that have lived here their whole lives and people that moved here from out of the state/area. Now that I think of it, the ones that moved here from out of state moved here from NY or NJ. The NY people were not from the Eastern side (NYC). Since our neighborhood is 20 years old, the ones that we are closer to have lived here for awhile so are not a part of the recent influx.
It sounds like you would be a great neighbor - there's a house for sale down the street from me!
My close friend from NYC moved to Allentown in December 08. their rental house has been broken into and robbed only three times so far and one home invasion last week with gunfire. Nice place. The district attorney must be looking for other employment.
Hi, my husband & I moved here from Central NJ in 2004. Just wondering if there's anyone else in the Lehigh Valley who also moved here from Central Jersey or the state of NJ. Wondering how you like it here, having any trouble transitioning, etc?
We moved here last summer...love it! nice people, beautiful countryside and found some good entertainment, dining, and cultural activities in Bethlehem and Allentown...
Came from a very nice area in Monmouth County as result of a job change and wanted a better commute but were used to being near Red Bank and Freehold which are cool towns...interestingly enough we chose the LV because it offered that experience via Bethlehem Easton, and Allentown and was a better value, which does not mean "cheaper" We've heard these kinds of comments before about the "new" people and I would suggest to Eephus that without new people the LV would continue to decay as the old industries and people left...we were actually welcomed by a lot of folks who want to see the LV improve and appreciate our contributions...
Last edited by SATB; 05-12-2009 at 08:56 AM..
Reason: update
Seven up, perhaps your friends should have done a little more research before they moved. I wouldn't move to a few parts Allentown if you paid me, but that doesn't mean that the whole city or the Lehigh Valley is some sort of danger zone. My church is in Allentown and I sometimes shop on the South side without any concerns.
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From NJ
