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So if someone is overpaid due to a broken system, according to you we shouldn't complain but change our own lives??
How does that union kool aid taste?
I don't think teachers on the whole are overpaid, but citizens should have the right to complain if the civil servants are making more than their private sector counterparts who are paying the salaries of the civil servants.
I made a point to say-
If you think they are overpaid because they are doing a less than satisfactory job then go forth with whatever productive venting you want to do.
If they're doing a good job, you and your kids are happy with the schooling, I don't think it's a broken system then... I think you just want $800 dollars more in your pocket a year. (as if that will placate long island's bitter tax-payers)
The private sector counterparts as a gross whole on Long Island are rediculously underpaid. The fact anyone around here makes minimum wage is where your 'broken system' actually lies.
The only city in the country to have a minimum wage that meets its standards of high cost living is San Francisco. $9.79 per hour at minimum- every single Town official on LI should push for such regulations.
The towns themselves already pay such wages, but the bigwigs at BestBuy, 7-11, Starbucks, BP are making a killing on their stores in the LI region and not paying their employees a fair share.
That's what this thread is about- Private sector disparities.
If you want to complain about tax dollars going to waste-
Check out what the CEO's of companies that recieved TARP Bailout money in 2008 made that year.
06-16-2010, 09:12 PM
grant516
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by crv1010
If you're upset about your garbage service, your police attention, or your public schools- by all means throw a stink about it. However if you're not using these services, or you just can't stand to see someone make a decent wage... change something about your own life.
I should move from an area if I don't have kids in the school system? That makes no sense whatsoever.
What's your definition of "decent wage"? Superintendents making more than the President Obama? Administrators making more that practically all 50 Governors? Teachers making well over 100K for working 160 days?[/quote]
Your points are a bit skewed...
The office of the president makes 400K annually for life- it also includes full living expenses including private cooks and a series of personal officers under the first family. No one in the public schools has that level of compensation, aside from those like Frank Tassone who steal from the schools.
Governors don't make a particularly amazing salary. Ours doesen't do a particularly amazing job.
Teachers with over 15 years of experience and multiple Master's or a Ph.D. make that kind of money to work their full 182 day school year.
As for it not making sense to move if you have no kids in the school system, I completely agree with you. However, you do live in Nassau County which has a bizzarre stance against anything other than single family homes. Given that condition, you're going to be paying through the nose for a piece of property regardless if you have a family and kids.
If they built desirable housing for people in their 20's and 30's who current demographic trends show have few to no school aged children, you'd have someone to defray your taxes you never stop beaching about.
If they cut teacher salaries by something like 40% you'd see feasable taxes I suppose as well.
Neither of these things are going to be happening any time soon.
Nassau County is a one-size-fits-some.
Frankly, I think that is rediculous... however it's why many people who are free of obligation, do choose to move.
Grant516,
I would suggest that if things are not right in your neighborhood, town, state or country, as a citizen, it is our right and obligation to stand up and be heard. If we all just "suck it up" because we live on Long Island and thats the way things are, then we will be exploited and run into the ground with taxes. I am not a native, and I could go somewhere else if I didn't like it here. It's a little more complicated. I love many aspects of LI, like the sense of community, small town feel, great landscapes, etc...However, is it worth 5-10 times what the most of the nation is paying for their services? Should that only be accessible if you make 100K to 200K per year? If the citizens take notice and stand up against it, at least it creates a ripple against the status quo. If we all just say, that's the way it is on Long Island. Either like it or go somewhere else...well you paint the picture.
In regard to the TARP money...that's just pointing at bad behavior to justify other bad behavior. I didn't see anyone claiming to be in favor of the TARP money.
Last edited by kajimenez; 06-16-2010 at 09:32 PM..
RETITLE IT: What about everyone else's overpriced businesses?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDMBA
There is a ton of "teachers get paid too much money" stuff going on here. Can someone explain why my mechanic is $110/hr and it cost 3k to get my car fixed and it still needs new injectors and a new digital dash?
My friend had two bathrooms done recently. That ran her around 30k. Why are the contractors so expensive??
We had a roof put on. And that was 10k why?
Has anyone called a plumber/electrician/etc? They are a fortune.
I used to practice law. I was billed out at $450/hr. Isn't that obscene?
Point is, everything is expensive. Why are teachers the ones who are taken to task but no one else? Just curious here.
You are confusing BUSINESSES with SALARIED EMPLOYEES.
For example, your law firm may have charged some clients $450 an hour, but then they have EXPENSES and taxes to pay. They don't just pocket the $450 an hour. That is the same for all the other examples you gave.
In contrast, actual SALARIED employees can put their SALARY in their pocket (minus taxes withheld of course).
* * * * *
As for TRUE SALARIED EMPLOYEES in the private sector who are OVERPAID: Their EMPLOYER chooses to overpay them and it is none of anyone's business but the EMPLOYER and the EMPLOYEE.
The EMPLOYER/WRITER OF THE PAYCHECK got to make the decision!
In contrast, when it comes to public employees whose UNIONS run the show, the WRITERS OF THE PAYCHECK/TAXPAYERS do not get to make any decisions but are only expected to pay up.
* * * * *
PS: Don't misconstrue this post that I am "for" cutting teachers' salaries. There are other ways to stop runaway taxes.
As for TRUE SALARIED EMPLOYEES in the private sector who are OVERPAID: Their EMPLOYER chooses to overpay them and it is none of anyone's business but the EMPLOYER and the EMPLOYEE.
you don't think business analize their expenses (which include compensation) and determine prices of their products in order to get a certain profit?
and the resulting prices that you and i pay for these products are none of our business???
There is a ton of "teachers get paid too much money" stuff going on here. Can someone explain why my mechanic is $110/hr and it cost 3k to get my car fixed and it still needs new injectors and a new digital dash?
My friend had two bathrooms done recently. That ran her around 30k. Why are the contractors so expensive??
We had a roof put on. And that was 10k why?
Has anyone called a plumber/electrician/etc? They are a fortune.
I used to practice law. I was billed out at $450/hr. Isn't that obscene?
Point is, everything is expensive. Why are teachers the ones who are taken to task but no one else? Just curious here.
The difference between a contractor/mechanic/roofer and a teacher is simple. The "all-in" price is known at the onset - meaning before you authorize the work you are made fully aware that the cost is X number of dollars or will cost a certain sum. However, with a teacher that number is not known. Here's the math behind it. Joe the roofer charges you 10,000 for a new roof, included in that price is the cost of materials, labor and a warranty against defects for a certain period of time. Jane the teacher makes $75,000 annually - that much is known upfront, the unknown is the annual cost to the taxpayer in the future for pension cost, retiree medical cost (based on these new 25/55 programs - life expectancy continues to increase each year) and benefits costs during the remaining working years.
As an MBA you know you need to know certain variables to calculate the NPV of future expenses - tell me, are you able to calculate the actual "true" cost of that one teacher today? Not really, discount rates can be estimated using historical data and extrapolating current rates, the same can not be said for medical costs due to extreme volatility in the increases, nor can it be for future salary increases since they are at the whim of taxpayer largesse and irrational decision making (or voting with emotion instead of mind).
The argument could be made that pension costs are known based on historical average market returns of 8%, but should the last twenty years of equity market returns prove to be an abberation, how will you be able to calculate the true cost of the pension if the 8% turns out to be statistically unreliable? Again, pension experts typically quote 8%, but that is true only for a pure 100% allocation to equities - a truly risky endeavor. As the past few years returns have shown, all the risk of failure to achieve "average" returns falls squarely on the backs of taxpayers - there is no "risk" to the teacher or any other government employee for that matter.
If they built desirable housing for people in their 20's and 30's who current demographic trends show have few to no school aged children, you'd have someone to defray your taxes you never stop beaching about.
If they cut teacher salaries by something like 40% you'd see feasable taxes I suppose as well.
Neither of these things are going to be happening any time soon.
Nassau County is a one-size-fits-some.
Frankly, I think that is rediculous... however it's why many people who are free of obligation, do choose to move.
Sure, it's ridiculous now, but when a lot of Nassau was built, no one really thought of people remaining single into their 30s, or never having kids. That's just not how life was back then. Suffolk was practically no-man's land until after WWII.
That's not to say Nassau couldn't build the housing you suggest, but where would they put it? From what I understand, the places people say are hot and happening are also an unholy PITA to get to. Long Beach? Really? (I do need to check it out, though, just to see.)
Now about those taxes: I wonder if they would really go down, or if the counties would just find another way to spend it. Yeah, yeah, the tax bills are broken up by allocation, but who's to say it wouldn't just be one expense taking the place of another? I mean, this is Long Island after all.
1) We can shop around for better price and contractors.
2) Contractors don't increase prices even when there is a lull in the economy.
3) We aren't responsible for contractors pensions.
4) We pay about 6K in school taxes IIRC per year (this year, more next year and the year after, etc etc) Figuring on roughly 2% increase per year its about 93,000 over 15 years.
Lets say we did a complete remodel top to bottom on a 3br, 2ba, kitch, den, LV. Thats about 6K, 15K, 30K, 2K, 2K, for a total of 55K.
"A loved and respected caculus teacher with 20 years of experience is actually underpaid if he/she is making 100K. But the useless 3rd grade teacher who has 20 years of experience also makes 100K. He/she could be replaced by hundreds of young and motivated teachers who would be happy to make 50K."
This post is wrong on so many levels.
Elementary teachers lay the foundation for learning of more difficult concepts such as calculus. One is not born with the ability to do basic math skills, they must be taught. Why is the teaching of that not considered valuable?
Secondly, it is interesting that the original poster considers 20 years of experience valuable in one context and not in another.
Thirdly, please show me the research that shows that younger teachers are MORE "motivated" than than older more experienced ones. I would also like to see the research comparing the motivation levels of experienced calculus teachers versus experienced elementary teachers.
Dont forget that in the past year most state licenses doubled ; add that into the prices. Also there is the mta tax that we have to pay, insurance costs ; esp health ins went up as it usually does.
All those are included in the prices of contractors. I am sure I could go on and on but its early and I cant think straight yet.
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RETITLE IT: What about everyone else's overpriced businesses?
