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The question was asked whether the volunteer system works or not. It does not.
Our volunteer system on Long Island is a throwback to the middle of the last century when the fire whistle would be blown and everybody would come a-runnin'. Oftentimes that did -- and still does -- result in a very delayed response to emergency calls. The vast majority of fire department calls these days are for EMS. Those departments that have a pure volunteer staff significantly lag national standards of response time, especially during weekday, daytime hours (few volunteers available.) Because of these staffing difficulties, many departments are forced to hire EMS personnel. So much for the all-volunteer system.
There are significantly better - and cheaper - models for Long Island to use. Those departments that have successfully used volunteers have integrated them into a combination system that works very differently from our model. Many of the DC area suburban departments are combination departments and are cited as models of efficiency and effectiveness.
Our fire taxes are comparatively high for supporting all-volunteer departments. The taxes are used to purchase duplicative, high-end fire equipment (Nassau County has significantly more aerial units and heavy rescue trucks than New York City, with 80% less population); and build taj-mahal fire houses (there are also more than 300 fire houses in Nassau County -- most equipped with gyms and bars and rec rooms.) Does Long Island really need a total of 181 (71 in Nassau and 110 in Suffolk) individual, independent fire departments?
Add in the pensions, tax breaks and other perks (including lavish installation dinners) for "volunteer" firefighters, and taxpayers are paying a hefty price for rather mediocre service. Politicians, of course, won't touch the system because it represents votes and saying anything against this tax-payer supported social club is tantamount to treason.
The series done by Newsday several years ago on the state of our fire protection on Long Island was eye-opening. And despite being quite accurate, it was roundly dismissed because of the political minefield it represents.
I'm well aware that this post will bring a barrage of "we get out of bed at 3 in the morning in the snow of February to protect you" or "why don't you volunteer yourself" diatribes. Well, I've been there and I've done that. The truth is that those discussions are just smoke screens. The system doesn't work, we pay significant taxes for it, and we deserve better.
+ 1,000
I saved a copy of that report as a .pdf file and I sent it to some of my friends in other parts of the country and they were absolutely shocked at the wastage and excess of Long Island's fire/rescue service.
I think Long Island should aim for 1 fire department per town that would include both fire and EMS. County wide fire departments would simply turn into another bureaucracy bloated and inefficient waste like the county police departments. The 5 East End towns would have a 40% career and 60% volunteer system while the other 7 (and more populated) towns would have a 60% career and 40% volunteer system. The SUNY colleges/universities (inc the community colleges), hospitals, etc would be required to either contract with the town's fire department or have their own FD. Airports, BNL, LIPA, and KeySpan would continue to have their own FDs.
While there are some very good replies posted here, there are others who have no idea of what they speak about.
To those who said I was a volly, or some such thing. Really ? when and where and why did you leave. ?? Could not hack it, or did you think it was one big party.
Yes we get out of bed at 3 AM, not just for a fire, but for MVAs. Next time it is over 9o degrees, look at us in full turn out gear. Would you like to join ? How about brush fires that go on for hours/days. care to join in ? Before you *****, read your tax bill and see how LITTLE you pay for 24/7 service.
Paid, beware of what you wish for. Town our county it will cost you a heck of a lot more then you pay now. Civil service is rank with insiders. May be not so much on a county level, but take that to a town level and see whos son or daughter is in the top ten on the list.
Paid ? where is the equipment going to come from and how much $$$$. The district buildings and equipment are owned by the tax payers. Care to guess how much your going to pay for them ??
Training ? While FDNY is the best FD anywhere. Long Island FireFighters are the best equiped and trained in NY state. Are there screw ups, yes I will be the first to say yes. But on a dollar to dollar and Man to man comparison. We come out way ahead.
Last thing for you naysayers to think about.
If Paid is so much better, why did the FDNY have us Vollies Stand by in there houses while they were at Ground ZERO. Were you there ? We were. Our Trucks and Engines were on the Ramps proudly displaying our Local districts Names and Colors. We responded to there calls. Funny no city dweller in need asked why we did not have FDNY on our gear or Trucks/Engines.
Vollies come no matter what/when or where. For free.
If you think the 10% is so much. Join, I dare you to stand next to any Long Island FireFighter.
You have been called. Now answer the call.
As I said, expect the chest-beating replies from the volunteer fire community. We're the best equipped (no argument - taxpayer dollars used to the max to collectively buy lots of unnecessary top of the line equipment), best trained (but only if we can train nights and weekends because we're not available otherwise) and the cheapest around (about 1/3 my police taxes -- but all I get is taj mahal fire houses and gold-plated trucks and no guarantee of people.)
And while we're discussing the WTC event (I was there), how do you explain the hundreds of volunteer fire trucks in and around Ground Zero (not standing by at fire houses) that were the result of a spontaneous and unrequested response by suburban volunteer fire departments. Ask any of the FDNY brass who will speak off the record and they will tell you that the unwanted presence of thousands of volunteer firefighters presented a major problem for FDNY. Want proof? Check the McKinsey reports which detailed all of the issues of police and fire response to 9/11 in NYC.
What we're witnessing here, and will continue to witness, is a group that can't really do the job they're expected to do -- and can't admit it. Ever wonder why there aren't volunteer cops providing police protection across the country?
*The word volunteer means doing something with no expectation of compensation...so why the pensions, property tax discount, and hitting up residents for "donations" for personal items activities?
*Response times are a joke because the clock stops when the"chief" shows up to the scene not when a fully manned truck shows up much later.
*Pray that you don't have a fire during weekdays from 9AM to 6PM because if you do you'll probably have a few elderly guys and a few HS kids "vollies" show up.
*Why are there so many Vollie Fire Chief mega super sized SUV's in NYC during the week? Will they respond back to LI in case of a call?
*Drinking and firefighting do not mix very well & should be banned.
*Politicians as usual have zero nerve to address the Vollie issue
*I resent the hardball fund raising activities. These funds have zero to do with fighting fires, equipment or training, which is all paid for by property taxes
*I feel a paid professional FD would better serve and protect residents and the resultant tax would not be a big deal.
*LI has too many Palaces...I mean fire houses, too much equipment
I think some of these Nassau FFs are driving drunk. In the past month I've encountered 3 FFs driving like idiots using their blue lights in road rage incidents as if they are going to pull someone over. And just this weekend in Freeport I had a chief from Oceanside with a teen driving his truck driving like an idiot and using his buzzing siren at me as if its a horn...and he was not responding to any emergency. Wish I woulda took down plate numbers for these incidents... not like anything would be done though.
sorry for ranting...
...as for the topic, I've been in a few firehouses and they all had beer taps in the FF's lounge
Of all the things to complain about, we are complaining about people who volunteer their time for no compensation to save lives?
petty.
Because thats all people on Long Island seem to do is complain, oh that and mind other peoples business.
Volly FF's may get certian benefits, that doesnt make them any less a volunteer. The don't do it for the pension the tax breaks, or whatever. They have a passion to help and pride in what they do. Ask any of them that do it.
The Volunteer Fire Service is NOT EXCLUSIONARY, anyone can volunteer and recieve the benifts of their service. If you do you deserve it.
Because thats all people on Long Island seem to do is complain, oh that and mind other peoples business.
Volly FF's may get certian benefits, that doesnt make them any less a volunteer. The don't do it for the pension the tax breaks, or whatever. They have a passion to help and pride in what they do. Ask any of them that do it.
The Volunteer Fire Service is NOT EXCLUSIONARY, anyone can volunteer and recieve the benifts of their service. If you do you deserve it.
And of course many people who complain are the first to DECLINE the opportunity.
Myself? I am not a FF. My father was in FDNY and a volunteer FF for many many years.. was one of the first responders for 9/11, woke up in the middle of the night MANY MANY nights to volunteer his time at home for the fire dept.
I just think its pretty hilarious that people will sit and find things to complain about for something like this.
As usual, folks here are hearing only what they want to hear. The question was asked whether or not the volunteer firefighting system works. The answer is that it does not. The motives or dedication of individuals is not in question. What is being seriously discussed are the numerous flaws in the system.
Complaints about the system are not frivolous. One of the responsibilities of government is to provide for public safety. On Long Island, the component of public safety that covers firefighting and emergency medical service is the responsibility of a balkanized volunteer service. The documented flaws in the system (again, read the Newsday series from a few years ago) put people's lives at risk. Further, there is little oversight and much waste in the use of taxpayer dollars to fund this system. Hardly "hilarious."
The best response that supporters of the system can muster is "if you don't like it, join up." It's a smoke screen and totally irrelevant. The system is broken and needs fixing.
.... The documented flaws in the system (again, read the Newsday series from a few years ago) put people's lives at risk. Further, there is little oversight and much waste in the use of taxpayer dollars to fund this system. Hardly "hilarious."
The best response that supporters of the system can muster is "if you don't like it, join up." It's a smoke screen and totally irrelevant. The system is broken and needs fixing.
Newsday doesnt have an agenda now does it?
What are you doing to fix the system? (other than complaining about it here?
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