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Now why can't they (in the interest of the general public) go one step further and breakup the cost and show how much goes into payroll and benefits, and how much to actually move a piece of 50 year old coach from point A to point B....
Now why can't they (in the interest of the general public) go one step further and breakup the cost and show how much goes into payroll and benefits, and how much to actually move a piece of 50 year old coach from point A to point B....
That would still only account for a fraction of the budget. I believe capital projects and debt servicing on the bonds they sell to fund these huge overbudget/overbloated projects accounts for around 90% of the MTA's total budget as opposed to the "operating budget" they like to throw out there. Most of it is available for you on the mta website.
The LIRR actually operates a very young fleet with the exception of some m3 cars still in service. The M7 and Double Decker C3 cars are all under 20 years old. Hell the M7s are just coming out of warrenty. The m3's still have the tail end of the 30 year bonds to pay off but they only account for a small percentage of cars. Same with the Dual mode Locomotives.
Same story at Metro North And NYC Transit. They went on a HUGE buying binge for equiptment and facilities and the debt servicing (with interest) is starting to weigh heavy on them.
Train Buff
*edit* The oldest m3 cars were bought in 1985 and 86. 140 in service. The C3 double deckers were purchased in 1998-99 with 143 in service and the m7 equiptment were purchased in 1999 with 836 cars in service. I think it took almost 5 years for the m7s to be delivered and put into service so many of them are 5 or 6 years old and still have a bit to go under warrenty. *edit*
Last edited by ninjacoupe; 03-24-2010 at 07:14 PM..
I was using sarcasm... I admit M7's are awesome, there is no question about it, the MDBF's on them are amazing compared to the M3's and diesels.
03-25-2010, 06:35 AM
grant516
n/a posts
how about they release the figures on how much it costs them to operate their bridges and tunnels, so I can know when I fork over my $11 twice a week, how much of that money I'm throwing at someone to take a bus across Queens who'se never done squat for me.
how about they release the figures on how much it costs them to operate their bridges and tunnels, so I can know when I fork over my $11 twice a week, how much of that money I'm throwing at someone to take a bus across Queens who'se never done squat for me.
Thats all on the MTA website as well. All these figures are available. The bridge and tunnels is tho only agency that has a surplus every year.
The total revenue for Bridge and tunnel was about 1.3 billion with costs before accounting changes around 570 million then coming in after depreciation was taken to about 424 million. This left the bridges with a surplus of 899 million that was then used to offset the other agency's ie LIRR, Transit, MTA police and so on. On average the fares only cover about 1/2 the cost of Operations with the rest coming from other funding sources. Remember that some operations have no fares recovery lite MTA HQ, Capitol projects and MTA Police and these are completely funded through the "other funding sources"
Oh and the buses,trains and subways relieve conjestion and other roadway expenses so please understand that everyone benefits from having a good mass transit system, including those who dont use it. It is a fact that mass transit is vital to the economy of big city areas especially N.Y.
Last edited by ninjacoupe; 03-25-2010 at 08:32 AM..
03-25-2010, 12:57 PM
grant516
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjacoupe
Thats all on the MTA website as well. All these figures are available. The bridge and tunnels is tho only agency that has a surplus every year.
The total revenue for Bridge and tunnel was about 1.3 billion with costs before accounting changes around 570 million then coming in after depreciation was taken to about 424 million. This left the bridges with a surplus of 899 million that was then used to offset the other agency's ie LIRR, Transit, MTA police and so on. On average the fares only cover about 1/2 the cost of Operations with the rest coming from other funding sources. Remember that some operations have no fares recovery lite MTA HQ, Capitol projects and MTA Police and these are completely funded through the "other funding sources"
Oh and the buses,trains and subways relieve conjestion and other roadway expenses so please understand that everyone benefits from having a good mass transit system, including those who dont use it. It is a fact that mass transit is vital to the economy of big city areas especially N.Y.
I was actually aware of the numbers, but I'm just venting.
We do not have a good mass transit system, so we do not benefit.
New York City has a good mass transit system that rides much off our (Staten and Long Islands) behalf.
I take the Throggs Neck or Whitestone to go from Nassau to Westchester, I am in a situation where I have no business in offsetting the MTA's finances however no viable alternative was ever completed to leaving the island.
I was actually aware of the numbers, but I'm just venting.
We do not have a good mass transit system, so we do not benefit.
New York City has a good mass transit system that rides much off our (Staten and Long Islands) behalf.
I take the Throggs Neck or Whitestone to go from Nassau to Westchester, I am in a situation where I have no business in offsetting the MTA's finances however no viable alternative was ever completed to leaving the island.
Thats a pretty tough commute. Its a shame there are no alternatives for you. I know commuting out of ronkonkoma to penn on the LIRR is a blessing compared to the drive from suffolk to LGA everyday. In spite of what some of the other commuters would lead you to believe.
03-25-2010, 09:08 PM
grant516
n/a posts
My issue is not with the challenge of the commute, or even the time it takes to make such a trip.
It's that the MTA considers driving inside New York City some kind of a luxury, and inflates bridges tolls as a sort of 'congestion offset'. These were the given words from the MTA board at last years public hearing on LI.
The alternative and quickest free route to Westchester requires driving through 4 NYC boroughs, and generally adds 20 miles and about 2 hours to the trip each way.
Robert Moses would be appalled to know that the TBTA funds are still being drained to support inner-city transit, and that the Oyster Bay-Rye bridge STILL hasn't been built.
I think it's criminal that a bridge toll can exceed a subway fare. My money will be leaving New York soon enough, I have no desire to be hosed for transit I choose to avoid because of it's instability.
We do not have a good mass transit system, so we do not benefit.
New York City has a good mass transit system that rides much off our (Staten and Long Islands) behalf.
Long Island has a great mass transit system as long as you're commuting to Manhattan. Intra-island transit isn't too hot, but then again it's still a lot better than most parts of the country. MTA LI Bus - while poorly run and not optimized for most commutes - still isn't utilized as much as it could be. Most people just aren't willing to use it, even if they could.
03-26-2010, 04:45 PM
grant516
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sean sean sean sean
Long Island has a great mass transit system as long as you're commuting to Manhattan. Intra-island transit isn't too hot, but then again it's still a lot better than most parts of the country. MTA LI Bus - while poorly run and not optimized for most commutes - still isn't utilized as much as it could be. Most people just aren't willing to use it, even if they could.
As long as you're commuting to ... jamaica, or lower west manhattan.
You're still off the mark here- the train goes less than a mile a minute when you calculate distance to train times. Kind of rediculous you can live in a place like Massapequa Park which is 29 miles from penn, and the train is over an hour.
Given there was minimal traffic, and half the price in tolls (which the MTA also controls), and parking where you were going, if you add the AAA rate, it would always be cheaper to drive than take the LIRR.
Granted these things are generally NOT true, but for a Mass Transit system you need one of two things-
#1 ) your system to be a convinence be it faster, or cheaper than typical private transit.
#2 ) To have a stranghold on those who use private transit, so either way they are funneling you money.
I frankly believe MTA chooses the latter.
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