Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > Long Island
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-09-2010, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
16,408 posts, read 33,218,769 times
Reputation: 7338

Advertisements

Sorry to interrupt the endless D vs. R bickering, but NIFA is taking action ... RIGHT NOW! It deserves its own thread so I am posting one ...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-09-2010, 04:30 PM
 
Location: Long Island (chief in S Farmingdale)
22,140 posts, read 19,367,304 times
Reputation: 5279
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdcnret View Post
So let me get this straight: Suozzi inherited a budget deficit, raised taxes astronomically, got lots of financial assistance from NIFA -- and after 8 years still left a multi-hundred million deficit. And you want to jump all over Mangano, in office for all of 10 months, as he presents his first budget with an honest attempt not to raise taxes during the worst recession in 80 years. You've been pounding on Mangano since the first week he was sworn in. I guess it was real tough for you to watch both Suozzi and Mejias bite the dust at the same time. Most of the rest of us understand the message that the voters sent.

Suozzi took over when our county was about to be taken over by the state and we had junk bond status. He raised taxes his first year in office and got $$$ from NIFA to help combat the problem. At that point the county's finances were in good shape and remained in good shape until the recession hit which resulted in a big downturn in sales tax revenue, which is why we have our current problem. As far as the message the voters set, the voters were angry over things that neither Suozzi nor Mangano have any control over. It was things (mostly related to school taxes) that is not in the jurisdiction of Nassau County government, Mangano used the misconceptions over that in order to get elected.

To put that aside for the moment, regardless how much you feel Suozzi is to blame for the current crisis, whether it be a little or a lot, we need to solve the current problem. Doing the exact same things that were done in the late 90's sure as hell isn't the way to do it, and that is what Mangano is doing. Do I expect him to solve the problems in 10 months? Of course not. Do I expect him to do something different from what he supported during the Gullota administration? Yes, but thats not happening, and that is what I am taking issue with.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-09-2010, 06:55 PM
 
Location: Long Island
56,954 posts, read 25,922,798 times
Reputation: 15480
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdcnret View Post
So let me get this straight: Suozzi inherited a budget deficit, raised taxes astronomically, got lots of financial assistance from NIFA -- and after 8 years still left a multi-hundred million deficit. And you want to jump all over Mangano, in office for all of 10 months, as he presents his first budget with an honest attempt not to raise taxes during the worst recession in 80 years. You've been pounding on Mangano since the first week he was sworn in. I guess it was real tough for you to watch both Suozzi and Mejias bite the dust at the same time. Most of the rest of us understand the message that the voters sent.
No one really wants to see Mangano fail that would be rather self destructive but he comes off as an amateur in spite of his years of experience.I didn't vote for him but I supported him up until the casino in Garden City, then I started to have my doubts. Then we had the proposal to sell off the Mitchell leases at fraction of their value and most recently demanding unions for the $60 M in givebacks. After that there was the request for a $365 M loan that his own comptroller asked him to roll back to $135 M. Also let us not forget his pledge to resolve the assessment problems and the report that was due out in June and the firing of his assessor.

All this and he found time to send a mailing to each resident in Nassau County touting his cancellation of the energy tax at the same time he indicated how bad he situation was that he inherited.

This is not a rational approach to the severe problems facing the county and it has nothing to do with political affilation. I could care less what party he is from but he just does not appear to have slightest idea how to solve the problems of Nassau County.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-09-2010, 10:04 PM
 
Location: Massapequa Park
3,172 posts, read 6,727,320 times
Reputation: 1374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smash255 View Post
Suozzi took over when our county was about to be taken over by the state and we had junk bond status. He raised taxes his first year in office and got $$$ from NIFA to help combat the problem. At that point the county's finances were in good shape and remained in good shape until the recession hit which resulted in a big downturn in sales tax revenue, which is why we have our current problem. As far as the message the voters set, the voters were angry over things that neither Suozzi nor Mangano have any control over. It was things (mostly related to school taxes) that is not in the jurisdiction of Nassau County government, Mangano used the misconceptions over that in order to get elected.

To put that aside for the moment, regardless how much you feel Suozzi is to blame for the current crisis, whether it be a little or a lot, we need to solve the current problem. Doing the exact same things that were done in the late 90's sure as hell isn't the way to do it, and that is what Mangano is doing. Do I expect him to solve the problems in 10 months? Of course not. Do I expect him to do something different from what he supported during the Gullota administration? Yes, but thats not happening, and that is what I am taking issue with.
Ok Smash, this seems to be going in circles.

What would you do if you were county exec?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-09-2010, 10:22 PM
 
Location: Long Island (chief in S Farmingdale)
22,140 posts, read 19,367,304 times
Reputation: 5279
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pequaman View Post
Ok Smash, this seems to be going in circles.

What would you do if you were county exec?

For starters something along the lines of the 3.9% increase in taxes that we had in 09 (approx $50 for the average homeowner). It might not be the most political savy decision to make, but a needed one considering the financial issues we are facing. I would have not repealed the energy tax without a way to pay for it. Are those types of things popular? Of course not. But the failure to make tough decisions that may have been unpopular when we needed to is what let us down the path it did during the late 90's.

Also make a few cuts in pay to staff and government officials, reign in some of the payouts, perhaps the department that makes up about 2/3 of the county property taxes is a place to start.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-10-2010, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Massapequa Park
3,172 posts, read 6,727,320 times
Reputation: 1374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smash255 View Post
For starters something along the lines of the 3.9% increase in taxes that we had in 09 (approx $50 for the average homeowner). It might not be the most political savy decision to make, but a needed one considering the financial issues we are facing. I would have not repealed the energy tax without a way to pay for it. Are those types of things popular? Of course not. But the failure to make tough decisions that may have been unpopular when we needed to is what let us down the path it did during the late 90's.

Also make a few cuts in pay to staff and government officials, reign in some of the payouts, perhaps the department that makes up about 2/3 of the county property taxes is a place to start.
You wouldn't last more than 1 term.
#1- it's a lot more than $50 per household. Avg. taxpayer will see about $150 increase. The cost cuts that you mentioned will do very little (Mangano's already done this). How would you address the school tax issue?

#2- Energy is already taxed multiple times by the time it reaches the consumer. Why add more layers of taxes and burden homeowners + biz's already struggling with the COL here. You can't just view taxpayers as statistics, picture a family or older couple living off SSI.

#3- Businesses and residents are overtaxed to begin with. I'll quote Seanx4 from another post on this:
"Plus, it's not only that our population growth has completely stagnated - we've also been losing every stream of commercial tax revenue (and the jobs they provide) at an alarming rate for the better part of three decades now. No large corporation is willing to set up shop here when they can pay a fraction of the taxes and get the same talent at one of those trendy relocation boomtowns in North Carolina or Iowa. We get killed on both ends with that....like a snake eating it's tail. Our inefficient local and state government drives away any opportunity to defer taxes off the residential homeowner with a downright hostile climate for doing business, we're left to pay a bigger chunk in their absence (as if things weren't bad enough already) and it becomes harder than ever because there are less opportunities to make money on the island itself.

The only large corporations investing in LI are retail and fast food.....
-By Sean Sean Sean Sean

Raising taxes is counterproductive; it pushes businesses to leave the area, kills jobs, reduces disposable income (it permanently destroys existing tax revenue streams).. Further exasperating the county deficit. It's like giving an alcoholic more booze to cure his hangover, just adds fuel to the fire.
You can compare Nassau to a business about to go under..it's only solution is to raise prices (in county case-taxes) on its remaining customer base. Eventually the customer base shrinks and the biz has to keep raising prices to makeup for that loss and on and on until they end up filing for bankruptcy. In a county's case, we'll just keep taxing residents and businesses to death, accelerating the mass exodus and then you end up with Detroit II.

Last edited by Pequaman; 11-10-2010 at 12:17 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-10-2010, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Long Island (chief in S Farmingdale)
22,140 posts, read 19,367,304 times
Reputation: 5279
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pequaman View Post
You wouldn't last more than 1 term.
#1- it's a lot more than $50 per household. Avg. taxpayer will see about $150 increase. The cost cuts that you mentioned will do very little (Mangano's already done this). How would you address the school tax issue?

#2- Energy is already taxed multiple times by the time it reaches the consumer. Why add more layers of taxes and burden homeowners + biz's already struggling with the COL here. You can't just view taxpayers as statistics, picture a family or older couple living off SSI.

#3- Businesses and residents are overtaxed to begin with. I'll quote Seanx4 from another post on this:
"Plus, it's not only that our population growth has completely stagnated - we've also been losing every stream of commercial tax revenue (and the jobs they provide) at an alarming rate for the better part of three decades now. No large corporation is willing to set up shop here when they can pay a fraction of the taxes and get the same talent at one of those trendy relocation boomtowns in North Carolina or Iowa. We get killed on both ends with that....like a snake eating it's tail. Our inefficient local and state government drives away any opportunity to defer taxes off the residential homeowner with a downright hostile climate for doing business, we're left to pay a bigger chunk in their absence (as if things weren't bad enough already) and it becomes harder than ever because there are less opportunities to make money on the island itself.

The only large corporations investing in LI are retail and fast food.....
-By Sean Sean Sean Sean

Raising taxes is counterproductive; it pushes businesses to leave the area, kills jobs, reduces disposable income (it permanently destroys existing tax revenue streams).. Further exasperating the county deficit. It's like giving an alcoholic more booze to cure his hangover, just adds fuel to the fire.
You can compare Nassau to a business about to go under..it's only solution is to raise prices (in county case-taxes) on its remaining customer base. Eventually the customer base shrinks and the biz has to keep raising prices to makeup for that loss and on and on until they end up filing for bankruptcy. In a county's case, we'll just keep taxing residents and businesses to death, accelerating the mass exodus and then you end up with Detroit II.

1. No where near $150 unless its a million $$$ ++ home. Keep in mind the county portion of the tax bill only makes up about 1/6 of the overall tax bill. The average homeowner pays about $1,500-$1,600 in county taxes (so it would be closer to $60 than $50, for the average homeowner, but sure as hell would not be $150, unless the home is worth in excess of $1,000,000)

As far as the school tax issue. As I have said multiple times, the county executive has NO control whatsoever over school taxes. None, it does not fall under the jurisdiction of the county executive. The best any county executive could do is push for consolidation and hope Albany listens, and even if they do you likely would have to convince the residents of the county to go along with consolidation, which is something many in the wealthier districts probably would fight.


2. As far as the energy tax goes, again I'm not really a fan of it, but unless someone can figure out how to pay for it, its likely needed. During the whole debate in the legislature it was pretty much asked to those who opposed it, well what will you cut to make up for the revenue loss, the same thing was pretty much asked to Mangano during the campaign, the answer was silence

Would these things be popular? Of course not, but a key reason why we got in so deep, the junk bond status, etc during the Gullotta administration was failure to do any of it when it was needed.

One of the things to keep in mind when you look at the county budget and Nassau County Property taxes in particular, is the bulk of it, about 2/3 goes to one agency within county government. So it leaves you for very little room to make cuts, unless you make cuts to that portion of the county.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-10-2010, 12:48 PM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
16,408 posts, read 33,218,769 times
Reputation: 7338
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smash255 View Post
1. No where near $150 unless its a million $$$ ++ home. Keep in mind the county portion of the tax bill only makes up about 1/6 of the overall tax bill. The average homeowner pays about $1,500-$1,600 in county taxes (so it would be closer to $60 than $50, for the average homeowner, but sure as hell would not be $150, unless the home is worth in excess of $1,000,000)

As far as the school tax issue. As I have said multiple times, the county executive has NO control whatsoever over school taxes. None, it does not fall under the jurisdiction of the county executive. The best any county executive could do is push for consolidation and hope Albany listens, and even if they do you likely would have to convince the residents of the county to go along with consolidation, which is something many in the wealthier districts probably would fight.


2. As far as the energy tax goes, again I'm not really a fan of it, but unless someone can figure out how to pay for it, its likely needed. During the whole debate in the legislature it was pretty much asked to those who opposed it, well what will you cut to make up for the revenue loss, the same thing was pretty much asked to Mangano during the campaign, the answer was silence

Would these things be popular? Of course not, but a key reason why we got in so deep, the junk bond status, etc during the Gullotta administration was failure to do any of it when it was needed.

One of the things to keep in mind when you look at the county budget and Nassau County Property taxes in particular, is the bulk of it, about 2/3 goes to one agency within county government. So it leaves you for very little room to make cuts, unless you make cuts to that portion of the county.
Quick Question: If NIFA takes over Nassau's finances, I understand that they can freeze union contracts. Will that extend to the teachers' unions or are we going to get screwed on that because they are technically employees of individual school districts?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-10-2010, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Long Island (chief in S Farmingdale)
22,140 posts, read 19,367,304 times
Reputation: 5279
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but View Post
Quick Question: If NIFA takes over Nassau's finances, I understand that they can freeze union contracts. Will that extend to the teachers' unions or are we going to get screwed on that because they are technically employees of individual school districts?
NIFA could not freeze teachers' union contracts. They can only get involved with things that impact the budget of the county itself and fall under the jurisdiction of Nassau County. Any contracts that fall under the jurisdiction of the schools, the towns, villages, etc NIFA would not have any control over or any say.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-10-2010, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
16,408 posts, read 33,218,769 times
Reputation: 7338
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smash255 View Post
NIFA could not freeze teachers' union contracts. They can only get involved with things that impact the budget of the county itself and fall under the jurisdiction of Nassau County. Any contracts that fall under the jurisdiction of the schools, the towns, villages, etc NIFA would not have any control over or any say.
Thank you. So we might as well move right along ... nothing to see here! The unions that are killing us in taxes will be chugging merrily along at full speed with their increases and all we can "hope for" is freezes to the limited in number police force and all the "little people" who run Nassau County and don't get anything above the ordinary ... freezing them is not something I am hoping for.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:



Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > Long Island

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:32 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top