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Old 12-20-2012, 03:13 PM
 
1,283 posts, read 1,643,886 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Commenter View Post
My daughter's teacher who earned 129K last year has a masters in physics and has taught for 35+ years - do you have any idea at all what you are talking about? He seem to come in at 7 for extra help each day and leaves about 4. I am certain he also works at home like most teachers do on weekends? How is that 35 hours a week? It sounds like you are convincing yourself of something rather far-fetched regarding teaching but there is certainly nothing wrong with you giving the job a shot.
My guess is you have never went to seethroughny.net and actually read the teachers contract for your SD. If you did, you would know that in most SD's you can reach $129k somewhere at the 20 year mark, depending on credits accrued after the Masters.

As for the hours per week your anecdotal data point is irrelevant. What is relevant in this discussion of teacher compensation is the labor contract agreed to by your SD and the teachers union. That agreement details exactly how much of teaching services the taxpayers purchase from the teachers union.

Seethroughny.net is your friend, embrace it, become infomed instead of emotional.
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Old 12-20-2012, 03:39 PM
 
2,630 posts, read 4,982,022 times
Reputation: 1776
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Commenter View Post
My daughter's teacher who earned 129K last year has a masters in physics and has taught for 35+ years - do you have any idea at all what you are talking about? He seem to come in at 7 for extra help each day and leaves about 4. I am certain he also works at home like most teachers do on weekends? How is that 35 hours a week? It sounds like you are convincing yourself of something rather far-fetched regarding teaching but there is certainly nothing wrong with you giving the job a shot.
I know way more than you think. I'm in the business. I'm happy your daughter's teacher is a dedicated professional. He gets paid like one so it's good for him to perform like one. That is what it's all about. Why is that so difficult to grasp for you defensive, "woe is me we are under attack" teacher protectors? For the record, not too many 2nd grade gym or early elementary teachers are taking work home with them or working on weekends (actually my son's has a lucrative art business on the side) and they make the same $129k. Maybe your guy needs a better union rep. They are all good teachers, NO ONE IS ARGUING THAT (well, actually they're not but lets pretend they are)...it's still about the BURDEN ON THE TAXPAYER TO SUPPORT THE SALARIES, BENEFITS, PENSIONS AND CONTRACTED RAISES!!! whew, I'm done.

So that's it in a nutshell. Do you think $129k is an (a. low b. high c. too high) professional wage for the job based on the job description and benefits (not in Indiana, Botswana or anywhere else...right here. right now)?
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Old 12-20-2012, 04:28 PM
 
Location: under the beautiful Carolina blue
22,640 posts, read 36,603,028 times
Reputation: 19847
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bella Vida View Post
Property taxes are high but I think you're forgetting we live in the NE, the highest taxed region in the country. So say if property taxes are reduced to $6000 (and they'll never go below that because we're in the NE, let alone NYC region)..you're only going to save around $5000 annually. ?
Put down the KoolAid and step away from it.

When I bought my house in Garden City in 1997 the property taxes on it were $4900 a year. They are now $14K.

Explain what the current owners are getting now, that I wasn't getting 15 years ago. That's really the crux of the argument. People keep telling themselves "it's worth it" but no one ever says at what point it won't be worth it.

At this rate the taxes will be around $20K in 2020. I'm just glad I found someone to unload it on.
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Old 12-20-2012, 05:10 PM
 
31 posts, read 50,768 times
Reputation: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by twingles View Post
Put down the KoolAid and step away from it.

When I bought my house in Garden City in 1997 the property taxes on it were $4900 a year. They are now $14K.

Explain what the current owners are getting now, that I wasn't getting 15 years ago. That's really the crux of the argument. People keep telling themselves "it's worth it" but no one ever says at what point it won't be worth it.

At this rate the taxes will be around $20K in 2020. I'm just glad I found someone to unload it on.
You're comparing 2012 to 1997..15 years. Inflation. Costs of almost everything has increased dramatically since 1997. Tell me why I was able to find gas a $1 or less per gallon in 1997, and now I have to pay $4 per gallon. Is the gas quality better now and free of pollutants and make the car have better gas mileage? Don't tell me its because of foreign oil because we've become less dependent in recent years on it, and got plenty of oil and gas industry in Texas. Costs have been rising over the years, with the product having the same quality.

Plus, thinking that property taxes will ever go back down to $4000 in a suburb of the NYC metro is wishful thinking. Let alone the NE is the region with the highest taxes in the country. This isn't Jacksonville, FL. The cost of NYC and its metro has skyrocketed.
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Old 12-20-2012, 05:16 PM
 
5,018 posts, read 3,916,205 times
Reputation: 3621
Originally Posted by mongoose65
1. It takes more than a master's in science education to make "bank" in nanotech and the jobs are extremely competitive for REAL reasons as opposed to people holding on to union gigs to pad their pension.
2. A teacher makes $129k in most LI districts LONG before 35 years. Maybe this teacher worked elsewhere or in another field.

You have this weird thing about "fine" industries.
1. We all know LI has very few of them and the myriad reasons why (gazillions of posts and threads on here).
2. Kids coming out of MIT are lucky to be getting $100k to start in those high tech industries you mention. Unless you are in upper management or top tier sales (and you aint working "partial" anything in those jobs and you may get a month off but good luck taking it...those jobs are high pressure and long hours) you aren't making bank.

Teaching on LI is an exceptionally cushy gig. Partial year's work (35hrs/wk, 10 mos yr, it's in the job description).

I don't resent the teachers. I resent the broken system that proliferates the exodus of "fine" industries and breaks the backs of the taxpayer in the name of "slightly above average education."

My daughter's teacher who earned 129K last year has a masters in physics and has taught for 35+ years - do you have any idea at all what you are talking about? He seems to come in at 7 for extra help each day and leaves about 4. I am certain he also works at home like most teachers do on weekends? How is that 35 hours a week? It sounds like you are convincing yourself of something rather far-fetched regarding teaching but there is certainly nothing wrong with you giving the job a shot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mongoose65 View Post
I know way more than you think. I'm in the business. I'm happy your daughter's teacher is a dedicated professional. He gets paid like one so it's good for him to perform like one. That is what it's all about. Why is that so difficult to grasp for you defensive, "woe is me we are under attack" teacher protectors? For the record, not too many 2nd grade gym or early elementary teachers are taking work home with them or working on weekends (actually my son's has a lucrative art business on the side) and they make the same $129k. Maybe your guy needs a better union rep. They are all good teachers, NO ONE IS ARGUING THAT (well, actually they're not but lets pretend they are)...it's still about the BURDEN ON THE TAXPAYER TO SUPPORT THE SALARIES, BENEFITS, PENSIONS AND CONTRACTED RAISES!!! whew, I'm done.

So that's it in a nutshell. Do you think $129k is an (a. low b. high c. too high) professional wage for the job based on the job description and benefits (not in Indiana, Botswana or anywhere else...right here. right now)?
129 Gross for a 35-year public school physics teacher seems about right given the COL here on Long Island. I am aware he has the usual public sector pension and benefits. Calm down. Yawn.

Last edited by Quick Commenter; 12-20-2012 at 05:26 PM..
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Old 12-20-2012, 05:51 PM
 
31 posts, read 50,768 times
Reputation: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by mongoose65 View Post
Now you've become a troll.

1. We speculate on your salry becasue you never said what your "fine" industry is and yes it's not rocket science for anyone to figure out the mean and median market rate salaries for ANY industry.
2. WTF is "fine" industry anyway? Is that some new HR term they use in nanotech?! lol
3. No one is complaining about teacher's work so spare us that guilt trip. We posted facts about COMPENSATION, hours, benefits, protections and if you disagree, fine. You have a right to your opinion, even if the facts bother you. The facts bother me too.
4. As for teacher's posting, many of the teacher's in my district are completely technologically illiterate, do not have email access through the district and good lord help them if they needed to create a spreadsheet or fashion a professional document. I CONSISTENTLY correct my son's handouts for typos and the formatting could be done by a grade schooler. That is FACT. It's unprofessional and embarrassing but they don't seem to care. 3 grades in a row, now.
4. You first came on here telling people "to get high paying jobs in fine industries" then got schooled on why people don't just "do that" on LI and then you adopted than mantra for yourself.

Now you're on another tangent. I'll give it to you one more time in simple terms....the dearth of "FINE" industries and the egregious overcompensation of teachers and police on LI are RELATED! That is the point. NOT to attack teachers.
I've become a troll? You're the one saying teaching is a part time job because they have July and August off. Last time I checked part time job meant only working like 20-30 hours a week including lunch and breaks. I don't know any full time teacher that works less than 30 hours a week.

1. I'm a biochemist FYI. I'm starting a job in Baltimore in January and the starting salary is higher than the starting salary than a Long Island teacher.
2. IT, nanotechnology, biotechnology, pharmacology, logistics, government contracting. Fortune 500 companies like General Electric, Global Foundries, Pfizer, I can go on. I remember you were the one who first referred to these industries as "fine." Industries making jobs by creating real useful products. These are the industries of the future. Fields like nanotechnology and biotechnology get money poured into them from academia and other big business for their research. Long Island has retail and law, those aren't the industries of the future and good outlook.
3. Benefits, compensation, retirement...again all government workers get those perks. Why is Long Island different? It's a known fact that public sector gets better benefits than private sector. Maybe it can be funded more sustainability like through the state, but it looks like all public sector jobs across the country will always have better benefits.
4. What does that have anything to with what were talking about? All I said was most hard working jobs don't have time to go on the internet freely during work hours. Which really makes me wonder what people on this thread do as living. How hard can you be working if you have all this time during regular work hours to post consistently on city data. Then go bash teacher salaries and how they don't work that hard because it seems the teacher salary bashers aren't working hard either.
5. Kidding, sarcasm. Sarcasm is the native language of Long Island.

If you want my background on teacher I'm glad to tell you. I have a bacehlor's in geology and after I finished undergrad my town needed a substitute earth science teacher to cover the last 2 months of the year. They hired me because it's hard to find people who know earth science and I took a few classes in education during my undergrad. I thought teaching would be fun and easy. WOW was I wrong! Having to deal with all students who have learning disabilities. Making sure all 60 of my students are doing well, taking time to talk with them one on one. Staying after school an extra 2-3 hours for extra help to work with students who needed help with the material. Having to take scientific content and "dumb it down" to a level where not just average students but learning disabled students can understand. I wasn't able to create my own tests and had to use old regents questions. Oh and making sure every student passes the regents, and sometimes you don't have control if students don't pass the administration and state education doesn't seem to get that. You also can't traditionally discipline students anymore. Instead, if a student is acting up you have to take time out and talk about what is wrong rather than giving them detention or deducting points from their grade. It was really depressing. Teaching for me was a big YUCK, headache, stress, and not enjoyable at all. You couldn't pay me $200K to do that job again, even if I had summer offs and good benefits. So I left and got a master's degree in something else. I was happier and it was MUCH less stressful working in the private sector research for nanotechnology and biotechnology while I was in graduate school. It's one thing to disagree with salaries that's your opinion, but to go around saying teachers work 35 hours a week and don't do much is degrading and false information.
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Old 12-20-2012, 06:02 PM
 
Location: Long Island
56,954 posts, read 25,911,628 times
Reputation: 15479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bella Vida View Post
You're comparing 2012 to 1997..15 years. Inflation. Costs of almost everything has increased dramatically since 1997. Tell me why I was able to find gas a $1 or less per gallon in 1997, and now I have to pay $4 per gallon. Is the gas quality better now and free of pollutants and make the car have better gas mileage? Don't tell me its because of foreign oil because we've become less dependent in recent years on it, and got plenty of oil and gas industry in Texas. Costs have been rising over the years, with the product having the same quality.

Plus, thinking that property taxes will ever go back down to $4000 in a suburb of the NYC metro is wishful thinking. Let alone the NE is the region with the highest taxes in the country. This isn't Jacksonville, FL. The cost of NYC and its metro has skyrocketed.
We all pay a high cost of living, why do we have to continually worry about compensation of teachers and other civil servants as if it's an entitlement, do we actually have a shortage of applicants where positions are going unfilled. Salaries in the private sector were completely stagnant since 2008 for the most part, not to mention layoffs and a high employment rate. Meanwhile teachers contracts continued on with increases anywhere from 4 to 10 percent a year, is that reasonable. The budgets coming up for vote will not only be burdened by teacher contracts and increased pension costs, but also damage from Sandy. How many private professions get free healthcare for life on retirement, how many work a 8 months out of the year, how many can count on the taxpayer to foot the bill when their pension performance has a shortfall. The salary is just part of the problem.
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Old 12-20-2012, 06:31 PM
 
2,630 posts, read 4,982,022 times
Reputation: 1776
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bella Vida View Post
I've become a troll? You're the one saying teaching is a part time job because they have July and August off. Last time I checked part time job meant only working like 20-30 hours a week including lunch and breaks. I don't know any full time teacher that works less than 30 hours a week.

1. I'm a biochemist FYI. I'm starting a job in Baltimore in January and the starting salary is higher than the starting salary than a Long Island teacher.
2. IT, nanotechnology, biotechnology, pharmacology, logistics, government contracting. Fortune 500 companies like General Electric, Global Foundries, Pfizer, I can go on. I remember you were the one who first referred to these industries as "fine." Industries making jobs by creating real useful products. These are the industries of the future. Fields like nanotechnology and biotechnology get money poured into them from academia and other big business for their research. Long Island has retail and law, those aren't the industries of the future and good outlook.
3. Benefits, compensation, retirement...again all government workers get those perks. Why is Long Island different? It's a known fact that public sector gets better benefits than private sector. Maybe it can be funded more sustainability like through the state, but it looks like all public sector jobs across the country will always have better benefits.
4. What does that have anything to with what were talking about? All I said was most hard working jobs don't have time to go on the internet freely during work hours. Which really makes me wonder what people on this thread do as living. How hard can you be working if you have all this time during regular work hours to post consistently on city data. Then go bash teacher salaries and how they don't work that hard because it seems the teacher salary bashers aren't working hard either.
5. Kidding, sarcasm. Sarcasm is the native language of Long Island.

If you want my background on teacher I'm glad to tell you. I have a bacehlor's in geology and after I finished undergrad my town needed a substitute earth science teacher to cover the last 2 months of the year. They hired me because it's hard to find people who know earth science and I took a few classes in education during my undergrad. I thought teaching would be fun and easy. WOW was I wrong! Having to deal with all students who have learning disabilities. Making sure all 60 of my students are doing well, taking time to talk with them one on one. Staying after school an extra 2-3 hours for extra help to work with students who needed help with the material. Having to take scientific content and "dumb it down" to a level where not just average students but learning disabled students can understand. I wasn't able to create my own tests and had to use old regents questions. Oh and making sure every student passes the regents, and sometimes you don't have control if students don't pass the administration and state education doesn't seem to get that. You also can't traditionally discipline students anymore. Instead, if a student is acting up you have to take time out and talk about what is wrong rather than giving them detention or deducting points from their grade. It was really depressing. Teaching for me was a big YUCK, headache, stress, and not enjoyable at all. You couldn't pay me $200K to do that job again, even if I had summer offs and good benefits. So I left and got a master's degree in something else. I was happier and it was MUCH less stressful working in the private sector research for nanotechnology and biotechnology while I was in graduate school. It's one thing to disagree with salaries that's your opinion, but to go around saying teachers work 35 hours a week and don't do much is degrading and false information.
Congratulations. Enjoy Baltimore. I never used the word "Fine" to describe industries except when paraphrasing you. I never said teaching was easy or that it was "part time" (I said it was "partial year" which it is). How hypocritical is it to question what others are doing posting when you are doing it as well? I hope you are great at biotech, I really do. At least as good at that as you are at putting words in my mouth.

This whole thing started with you saying people should just get high tech jobs that pay 6 figures and I told you WHY that doesn't happen here. Since "it" doesn't happen here, that is an indication that teachers are overcompensated. With all those master's degrees did you get any math or economics credits?! How can those salaries be sustained when the MEDIAN incomes of working families can't support it in real world numbers. If the only ones who can keep up are married couples of teachers and police officers, does that indicate a functional or DYSFUNCTIONAL economy to you? You decry the lack of "fine" industries and I'm giving you a main reason why they left and won't come back. When middle class business owners work 80 hrs a week and make $40k less than their kids KG teacher, they will have to think about keeping that business here. That's an economic FACT. To entice new business we are giving away the farm in tax incentives so salaries are low AND they are not contributing to the commercial tax base so non-public employees get even harder hit. Can't keep giving you these free lessons. I already train enough M.Ed's and PhD's to be functional outside their specialty. Not all mensa candidates I can attest to that.

Also, NYC taxes are half LI so that "NYC Metro" line is also completely off.

You confirm the troll slur by talking in circles defending a problem 1/2 dozen posters have tried to explain to you and then admit you are leaving for better pastures out of state.

Good luck in Baltimore.
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:31 AM
 
Location: under the beautiful Carolina blue
22,640 posts, read 36,603,028 times
Reputation: 19847
Inflation?

Oh, OK. Sure. Got it.

Property taxes in other areas of the country have managed to remain steady for 15 years...wonder what's different in those places?
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Old 12-21-2012, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Mishawaka, Indiana
7,010 posts, read 11,921,657 times
Reputation: 5813
Quote:
Originally Posted by twingles View Post
Inflation?

Oh, OK. Sure. Got it.

Property taxes in other areas of the country have managed to remain steady for 15 years...wonder what's different in those places?
Maybe the difference is it's Long Island, and the rest of the country isn't?
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