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Old 01-06-2011, 11:43 PM
 
Location: Wellsville, Glurt County
2,845 posts, read 10,484,860 times
Reputation: 1417

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ntrainride View Post
In any case, the examples you cited are definitely there but they are still rare. Look at Bethpage, Wantagh, Cold Spring Harbor, Carle Place, even Hicksville train stations. A huge number of wasted urban (yes, urban. Nassau/Suffolk is as urban as it gets, just more spread out.) space.
I agree, plenty of areas that could benefit from high density construction....and that Nassau (though not Suffolk) is at it's heart URBAN pretending to be a quiet, sleepy suburb.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but View Post
Uh, no, reread my post because I didn't say it was "part of the solution" to the problem. I also didn't say I thought it was "good" that most of the buildings turned co-op or condo. I don't.

I just pointed out that the ACTUAL BRICK AND MORTAR apartment buildings have been there, many of them standing for over a half century.

They were built to house renters, but evolved into co-ops and condos. Why did that happen if the rental market is as strong as you claim?

So, you agree with me that some areas in Nassau already HAD the big apartment buildings for renters.

If even more apartment buildings are built, how can you tell me they will be the solution to LI renters seeking apartments and the same thing won't happen? Making the government put them up? Well, I know the Town of Hempstead (and other municipalities) has put up buildings with "affordable" apartments in the last 20 years, but those are are for senior citizens only and even those are co-ops, not rentals.

Why isn't anyone (private industry or government) building "affordable" (meaning working or middle class, NOT for the indigent) rentals if LI desperately needs so many more apartments as you state?

I thought "if you build it, they will come" ... if there's a large market for this as you say, why isn't anyone building?
They did build it.....they did come......then they (building owners) realized they could make more money locking someone into purchasing a condo or co-op while also deferring the tax burden off of themselves. Then they (renters) either moved off Long Island or moved into crappy illegal apartments. Apartment buildings in neighborhoods that declined during the 1960s (also the same era most of them were built) became defacto public housing projects catering to Section 8 tenants after they could no longer lure entry level middle class tenants. This is especially common in Freeport, a village that also has Nassau County's only REAL housing projects (aside from the senior "assisted living" centers).

The masses of Long Island feared the Freeport scenario while refusing to acknowledge the more common Garden City/Rockville Centre scenarios (two places with many upscale rental/co-op/condo buildings) and thus from that day forward threw temper tantrums anytime construction other than single family detached homes, fast food franchises and strip malls appeared to be a possibility in their neighborhood. Zoning regulations from the 19th century were strictly adhered to and new ones were put on the books where possible. High density housing became synonymous with urban blight.....much like public transportation and minorities. Development stagnated, "renters don't pay taxes!! they'll overcrowd the schools!!!!", property taxes soared anyway, real estate boomed, then busted, baby boomers aged (they were allowed to live in these type of accommodations), in the process a "starter home" became an incredibly unrealistic purchase for many young families, and nearly all recent college grads, and here we are in 2011....

Is the market out there? Absolutely. I think we could retain a LOT more 20-30 year old natives if their primary living options weren't mom's couch or some old ladies' basement. It makes sense profit-wise for developers, way moreso than typical LI construction, it's just that the zoning regulations and public opposition are out of hand. A typical 3-4 story apartment building generates 10x the property tax revenue in the same space a comparable block of single family homes occupies and is generally filled with a much lower percentage of children.... yet people are still convinced "THEY'LL FLOOD THE SCHOOLS!!! TRAFFIC!!! ARRRGHHHH!! MINORITIES!!! THEY DON'T PAY TAXES!@!!" and so on and so forth....

It seems like the condo/co-op market on LI has shifted more towards the "townhouse" style development, plus that segment has to be fairly well covered already. Those types of properties are out there.....so I don't think any new rental buildings would necessarily turn into owner-occupied units overnight. I actually think this is one of the major hurdles Long Island needs to overcome going forward.....the socioeconomic landscape has seriously changed in the last decade, we need at least somewhat more diverse housing options to avoid hemorrhaging even more of our 18-30 middle/working class. The meat and potatoes of people who are supposed to be planting roots here....

Do you remember the whole St. Paul's fiasco in Garden City? That was really disheartening....
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Old 01-06-2011, 11:47 PM
 
7,658 posts, read 19,123,656 times
Reputation: 1326
Quote:
Originally Posted by sean sean sean sean View Post
I agree, plenty of areas that could benefit from high density construction....and that Nassau (though not Suffolk) is at it's heart URBAN pretending to be a quiet, sleepy suburb.



They did build it.....they did come......then they (building owners) realized they could make more money locking someone into purchasing a condo or co-op while also deferring the tax burden off of themselves. Then they (renters) either moved off Long Island or moved into crappy illegal apartments. Apartment buildings in neighborhoods that declined during the 1960s (also the same era most of them were built) became defacto public housing projects catering to Section 8 tenants after they could no longer lure entry level middle class tenants. This is especially common in Freeport, a village that also has Nassau County's only REAL housing projects (aside from the senior "assisted living" centers).

The masses of Long Island feared the Freeport scenario while refusing to acknowledge the more common Garden City/Rockville Centre scenarios (two places with many upscale rental/co-op/condo buildings) and thus from that day forward threw temper tantrums anytime construction other than single family detached homes, fast food franchises and strip malls appeared to be a possibility in their neighborhood. Zoning regulations from the 19th century were strictly adhered to and new ones were put on the books where possible. High density housing became synonymous with urban blight.....much like public transportation and minorities. Development stagnated, "renters don't pay taxes!! they'll overcrowd the schools!!!!", property taxes soared anyway, real estate boomed, then busted, baby boomers aged (they were allowed to live in these type of accommodations), in the process a "starter home" became an incredibly unrealistic purchase for many young families, and nearly all recent college grads, and here we are in 2011....

Is the market out there? Absolutely. I think we could retain a LOT more 20-30 year old natives if their primary living options weren't mom's couch or some old ladies' basement. It makes sense profit-wise for developers, way moreso than typical LI construction, it's just that the zoning regulations and public opposition are out of hand. A typical 3-4 story apartment building generates 10x the property tax revenue in the same space a comparable block of single family homes occupies and is generally filled with a much lower percentage of children.... yet people are still convinced "THEY'LL FLOOD THE SCHOOLS!!! TRAFFIC!!! ARRRGHHHH!! MINORITIES!!! THEY DON'T PAY TAXES!@!!" and so on and so forth....

It seems like the condo/co-op market on LI has shifted more towards the "townhouse" style development, plus that segment has to be fairly well covered already. Those types of properties are out there.....so I don't think any new rental buildings would necessarily turn into owner-occupied units overnight. I actually think this is one of the major hurdles Long Island needs to overcome going forward.....the socioeconomic landscape has seriously changed in the last decade, we need at least somewhat more diverse housing options to avoid hemorrhaging even more of our 18-30 middle/working class. The meat and potatoes of people who are supposed to be planting roots here....

Do you remember the whole St. Paul's fiasco in Garden City? That was really disheartening....
SeanSean

Never at a loss for words.

Summing up.

In keeping with the theme of brevity.
Suffolk (Til about the Wm Floyd) is actually zoned urban too in terms of density, but the fish still rots from the head on the JM2C scale.

; )

Crooks
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Old 01-07-2011, 02:16 AM
 
87 posts, read 141,339 times
Reputation: 67
"The masses of Long Island feared the Freeport scenario while refusing to acknowledge the more common Garden City/Rockville Centre scenarios (two places with many upscale rental/co-op/condo buildings) and thus from that day forward threw temper tantrums anytime construction other than single family detached homes, fast food franchises and strip malls appeared to be a possibility in their neighborhood. Zoning regulations from the 19th century were strictly adhered to and new ones were put on the books where possible. High density housing became synonymous with urban blight.....much like public transportation and minorities. Development stagnated, "renters don't pay taxes!! they'll overcrowd the schools!!!!", property taxes soared anyway, real estate boomed, then busted, baby boomers aged (they were allowed to live in these type of accommodations), in the process a "starter home" became an incredibly unrealistic purchase for many young families, and nearly all recent college grads, and here we are in 2011...."

Excellent, a perfect synopsis of the process. The RVC/GC observation is especially pertinent. Mineola is another location that seems to have adopted well to multi-storey residential buildings.
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Old 01-26-2011, 12:48 AM
 
1 posts, read 1,373 times
Reputation: 12
The thing that really makes me mad when I read this is that people can't tell the difference between the working immigrants and the gang banging immigrants. My dad is a legal US citizen and he has done landscaping all my life. He is now 53 and still works harder than any 20 year old I know. My dad did enter this country illegally and has never been arrested for any gang affiliation to the day he got his papers. The gang bangers are the problem not the workers. The workers actually want to better their lives. People treat them harshly and the gang members who sell Americans drugs are the ones that people don't treat harshly. That's not fair and it doesn't make sense. I have eaten from my dads landscaping money, wore clothes I've bought with it, have a roof over my head with that money and I will graduate high school this year and go to college with that money and I'm damn proud. I don't care what you guys say about landscapers but chances are that they are the hard working decent people just like anybody else. It those drug dealers that are the problem. Btw I wrote this on my phone so sorry bout the spelling
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Old 01-26-2011, 05:54 AM
 
182 posts, read 405,692 times
Reputation: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by kittykat93 View Post
The thing that really makes me mad when I read this is that people can't tell the difference between the working immigrants and the gang banging immigrants. My dad is a legal US citizen and he has done landscaping all my life. He is now 53 and still works harder than any 20 year old I know. My dad did enter this country illegally and has never been arrested for any gang affiliation to the day he got his papers. The gang bangers are the problem not the workers. The workers actually want to better their lives. People treat them harshly and the gang members who sell Americans drugs are the ones that people don't treat harshly. That's not fair and it doesn't make sense. I have eaten from my dads landscaping money, wore clothes I've bought with it, have a roof over my head with that money and I will graduate high school this year and go to college with that money and I'm damn proud. I don't care what you guys say about landscapers but chances are that they are the hard working decent people just like anybody else. It those drug dealers that are the problem. Btw I wrote this on my phone so sorry bout the spelling
Your dad entered the country illegally which made him a criminal. How did he get his papers? Buy them from someone? Get lucky in the 1980's amnesty?
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Old 01-26-2011, 06:39 AM
 
Location: Hempstead
330 posts, read 723,570 times
Reputation: 277
That video is retarded. It goes back and forth between two or three idiots talking sh.t and some frightened to death guy on a bus video taping a crowd of people ("Look at them all!") and some dented cars and trying to make that into a scary ghetto. Uh-oh, people sitting on their front steps, better get out of here.
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Old 03-06-2011, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Clinton Hill, Brooklyn
383 posts, read 1,313,193 times
Reputation: 140
i knew Uniondale, Roosevelt, Westbury could be bad but never like how your sayin it is.
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