Discussion thread for LI Civil Service pensions and salaries (New York: 2013, insurance)
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I know it makes some people feel good inside to say "these threads do nothing, you are just wasting your time" but they inform others, people talk, people write Newsday and their county legislators and executive, and Newsday writes stories about this frequently. Spreading the word is a good thing. If you don't think the police and teachers are overpaid, you should welcome the debate as a chance to prove their worth. Let's end these posts saying this is a waste of time, it's off topic at best and a devious way to hide the truth at worst.
Show me how anything has changed since the inception of City-Data, when people first started talking about the issue here. Then show me how it changed because someone took action after reading something here.
You are speaking in the theoretical. I am speaking of what has actually happened and what has actually changed after someone took action because of what they read here--which is nothing.
I'm all for freedom of speech. I'm all for people posting their ideas and discussing them. But the reality is that if all you do is talk, then all you're doing is talking.
You really don't understand? It's quite simple. The $40 million closes the budget deficit. Who cares how big the budget is? What matters is the revenue shortfall. NIFA is estimating that Nassau County is on shakey ground for $60 million of their budget. This cut eliminates 2/3rds of that potential shortfall, which is a good thing.
The public service unions will fiddle until Rome burns and Gingrich is lighting a match:
State bankruptcy bill imminent, Gingrich says - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110121/pl_nm/us_usa_states_bankruptcy - broken link)
Quote:
Filing for bankruptcy would allow them to renege on their pension promises and other obligations to state employees.
"The very fact of the bill existing... allows governors to sit down with unions and say: 'Look you, negotiate with us or I'm taking the state into bankruptcy,'" Gingrich said.
Under bankruptcy an employer can negate labor contract provisions, and state bankruptcy "may be a way to put additional pressure on public employee service unions to negotiate," said Howard Cure, director of municipal research at Evercore Wealth Management in New York.
With their huge sense of entitlement, they will not negotiate for the good of society at large and it has been proven over and over again, so they have to be forced to. Public service unions are vampires and should be outlawed. Any services paid for by the taxpayers should not have unions at the helm of the personnel because we all see they do not play fair and do not care whether there is money to pay their perks or not.
You really don't understand? It's quite simple. The $40 million closes the budget deficit. Who cares how big the budget is? What matters is the revenue shortfall. NIFA is estimating that Nassau County is on shakey ground for $60 million of their budget. This cut eliminates 2/3rds of that potential shortfall, which is a good thing.
You can generate that on about a dollar a day increase of taxes on the 400K+ assessed homes in Nassau County, too. Soda from a vending machine, balanced budget, soda from a vending machine, balanced budget. Decisions, decisions.
You can also cut a lot of money by getting rid of patronage jobs. Why are six-figure appointees from the Suozzi administration still around?
And speaking of Suozzi, you do know that he forced extensions on several contracts, right? I'm too lazy to photocopy the nasty letters his office sent out and post them here, but good luck going back on contracts that have been signed, sealed, and delivered under duress. Turns out his hardball tactics worked out for the unions in the long run. Oh, well. Next time, elect someone who isn't going to behave like Napoleon throwing a tantrum, making threats and telling people to accept it when he pulls things off the table that he, himself put on and ordering them to just sign the contract--or else. Next time, elect someone who knows what he's doing.
Which clearly wasn't Mangano, either.
There is plenty of fat to trim at the top. Consolidate your school districts. You don't need one for nearly every neighborhood, despite the trepidations of those who couldn't bear the thought of their kids sharing classroom space with kids from a lower socioeconomic stratum. Then once you consolidate, you can get rid of a lot of your administrators. Like the ones who make $250K+ a year.
And as long as you'd like to save your county some money, how about not letting Kathleen Rice hire phantom attorneys for $120K a year? How about calling her to task for putting her sister in a job she's not qualified for at $90K a year, the day after Rice was sworn in? Oh, that pesky nepotism.
Last edited by Yzette; 01-22-2011 at 11:38 AM..
Reason: I can haz grammar?
You can generate that on about a dollar a day increase of taxes on the 400K+ assessed homes in Nassau County, too. Soda from a vending machine, balanced budget, soda from a vending machine, balanced budget. Decisions, decisions.
You can also cut a lot of money by getting rid of patronage jobs. Why are six-figure appointees from the Suozzi administration still around?
And speaking of Suozzi, you do know that he forced extensions on several contracts, right? I'm too lazy to photocopy the nasty letters his office sent out and post them here, but good luck going back on contracts that have been signed, sealed, and delivered under duress. Turns out his hardball tactics worked out for the unions in the long run. Oh, well. Next time, elect someone who isn't going to behave like Napoleon throwing a tantrum, making threats and telling people to accept it when he pulls things off the table that he, himself put on and ordering them to just sign the contract--or else. Next time, elect someone who knows what he's doing.
Which clearly wasn't Mangano, either.
There is plenty of fat to trim at the top. Consolidate your school districts. You don't need one for nearly every neighborhood, despite the trepidations of those who couldn't bear the thought of their kids sharing classroom space with kids from a lower socioeconomic stratum. Then once you consolidate, you can get rid of a lot of your administrators. Like the ones who make $250K+ a year.
And as long as you'd like to save your county some money, how about not letting Kathleen Rice hire phantom attorneys for $120K a year? How about calling her to task for putting her sister in a job she's not qualified for at $90K a year, the day after Rice was sworn in? Oh, that pesky nepotism.
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Avienne again
Show me how anything has changed since the inception of City-Data, when people first started talking about the issue here. Then show me how it changed because someone took action after reading something here.
You are speaking in the theoretical. I am speaking of what has actually happened and what has actually changed after someone took action because of what they read here--which is nothing.
I'm all for freedom of speech. I'm all for people posting their ideas and discussing them. But the reality is that if all you do is talk, then all you're doing is talking.
Well the NCPD and SCPD are just as overpaid today as they were when City-Data was started. However I know I see many more "letters to the editor" and Newsday articles recently than ever before. I also hear what my neighbors are saying, and what's reported on News12. Yes, there's no way to pin it to City-Data threads, but so what? The more an issue is discussed, the greater the chance that something will happen. If these threads bother you, there's no need to click on them, correct?
You can generate that on about a dollar a day increase of taxes on the 400K+ assessed homes in Nassau County, too. Soda from a vending machine, balanced budget, soda from a vending machine, balanced budget. Decisions, decisions.</p>
You can also cut a lot of money by getting rid of patronage jobs. Why are six-figure appointees from the Suozzi administration still around?
And speaking of Suozzi, you do know that he forced extensions on several contracts, right? I'm too lazy to photocopy the nasty letters his office sent out and post them here, but good luck going back on contracts that have been signed, sealed, and delivered under duress. Turns out his hardball tactics worked out for the unions in the long run. Oh, well. Next time, elect someone who isn't going to behave like Napoleon throwing a tantrum, making threats and telling people to accept it when he pulls things off the table that he, himself put on and ordering them to just sign the contract--or else. Next time, elect someone who knows what he's doing.
Which clearly wasn't Mangano, either.
There is plenty of fat to trim at the top. Consolidate your school districts. You don't need one for nearly every neighborhood, despite the trepidations of those who couldn't bear the thought of their kids sharing classroom space with kids from a lower socioeconomic stratum. Then once you consolidate, you can get rid of a lot of your administrators. Like the ones who make $250K+ a year.
And as long as you'd like to save your county some money, how about not letting Kathleen Rice hire phantom attorneys for $120K a year? How about calling her to task for putting her sister in a job she's not qualified for at $90K a year, the day after Rice was sworn in? Oh, that pesky nepotism.
So your answer to the question: "Are the NCPD and SCPD still fairly compensated if their median pay is over $100k with all benefits in tact" is to increase taxes even more on homeowners? I do agree with your other suggestions. The police compensation cut should be done along with eliminating "phantom attorneys" and patronage jobs. The NCPD and SCPD are highly skilled professionals that must be paid well. A $25,000 cut in pay only would still have them making great money while receiving top notch benefits. The $40 million saved could go a long way for Nassau County.
So your answer to the question: "Are the NCPD and SCPD still fairly compensated if their median pay is over $100k with all benefits in tact" is to increase taxes even more on homeowners? I do agree with your other suggestions. The police compensation cut should be done along with eliminating "phantom attorneys" and patronage jobs. The NCPD and SCPD are highly skilled professionals that must be paid well. A $25,000 cut in pay only would still have them making great money while receiving top notch benefits. The $40 million saved could go a long way for Nassau County.
I take a utilitarian approach: A buck a day for everyone is going to be a LOT easier to implement than slashing a whole bunch of salaries by $25K each. Practical vs. theoretical. Then you have the leverage to freeze wages. I don't think anyone making six figures is going to be put in the poor house if they don't get a raise for a couple of years. But you've gotta give to get. Yes, yes, the people are supposed to be the ones with the power, but evidently reality disagrees.
I also take the labor-friendly approach that it's best to start trimming at the top (the suits) not at the bottom (the guys and gals actually doing the work). Not only is there invariably more lard at the top to trim, regardless of whether you're talking private or public sector, but if you want labor to take you seriously, lead by example and start with yourself.
Heaven forbid a politician should ever come to the same conclusion.
Last edited by Yzette; 01-22-2011 at 03:55 PM..
Reason: added a few lines
I take a utilitarian approach: A buck a day for everyone is going to be a LOT easier to implement than slashing a whole bunch of salaries by $25K each. Practical vs. theoretical. Then you have the leverage to freeze wages. I don't think anyone making six figures is going to be put in the poor house if they don't get a raise for a couple of years. But you've gotta give to get. Yes, yes, the people are supposed to be the ones with the power, but evidently reality disagrees.</p>
I also take the labor-friendly approach that it's best to start trimming at the top (the suits) not at the bottom (the guys and gals actually doing the work). Not only is there invariably more lard at the top to trim, regardless of whether you're talking private or public sector, but if you want labor to take you seriously, lead by example and start with yourself.
Heaven forbid a politician should ever come to the same conclusion.
Of course it's much easier, politically and pragmatically to increase everyone's taxes a little instead of cutting the pay of a few. That's what has been going for all this time and has lead to the situation we are in. More of the same isn't the answer. What you fail to acknowledge is that Long Island home owners pay some of the highest property taxes in the nation. And LI police make some of the highest salaries and have some of the most generous benefits packages in the nation. More of the same closes the budget gap this year and that's it. Additionally, saying "you've gotta give to get" is nothing more than extortion when it comes to LI police departments. They have it all. It's time for the counties to tighten their fiscal belts and take some back. You still haven't answered my question - is $105K salary (median) and the exact same benefits as they have now fair compensation for LI police?
Of course it's much easier, politically and pragmatically to increase everyone's taxes a little instead of cutting the pay of a few. That's what has been going for all this time and has lead to the situation we are in. More of the same isn't the answer. What you fail to acknowledge is that Long Island home owners pay some of the highest property taxes in the nation. And LI police make some of the highest salaries and have some of the most generous benefits packages in the nation. More of the same closes the budget gap this year and that's it. Additionally, saying "you've gotta give to get" is nothing more than extortion when it comes to LI police departments. They have it all. It's time for the counties to tighten their fiscal belts and take some back. You still haven't answered my question - is $105K salary (median) and the exact same benefits as they have now fair compensation for LI police?
Honestly, it's not the salary that is such a problem as the benefits. Southampton ran an article in their local paper in 2003, I think, that broke down the numbers on retirement pensions and benefits. The article summarized, and I'm paraphrasing, that for each officer on the street they were paying $500,000 in pensions and benefits for retired police officers. The high salaries are expensive, but it's the benefits and pensions that are going to boil the community slowly.
I think 105k is more then fair, as long as we have them contribute to their own 403b and pay 50% of their health care. It's a start.
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They don't want to understand.
