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Old 01-24-2011, 12:42 PM
 
13,507 posts, read 16,977,747 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kbinspections View Post
I'm not sure if median income really reflects peoples net worth. Most retired people who live on LI are very wealth but do not have a high income level.
Regardless of what apples you want to compare to what apples, if you want to compare the net worth of the average LIer to the net worth of NCPD and SCPD, you end up with the same scenario.

Keep in mind that a NCPD or SCPD pension is equivalent to basically being given about a million+ dollars on the day you are hired, and you're told "this is yours in 20 years" in addition to whatever money you save on your own.

We're talking about police salaries here, and how they compare to other peoples salaries in the same area, and whether they need to be as high as they are in order to adequate police protection. If a person has a high net worth they probably have a house that they own, and then they get whacked on property taxes, which is where part of police funding comes from.

 
Old 01-24-2011, 12:51 PM
 
8,679 posts, read 15,236,082 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kbinspections View Post
I'm not sure if median income really reflects peoples net worth. Most retired people who live on LI are very wealth but do not have a high income level.
Ye gods, I didn't even think of that. Good point. I'm glad you mentioned it.
 
Old 01-24-2011, 01:02 PM
 
8,679 posts, read 15,236,082 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dman72 View Post
If a person has a high net worth they probably have a house that they own, and then they get whacked on property taxes, which is where part of police funding comes from.
"Whacked?" Are you saying that people who own their houses shouldn't have to pay property tax on them?

Call me a leftist, but if someone has a high net worth, it's not going to kill them to pay their fair share of taxes. They're not even going to feel it, and them grousing about it is just greed and selfishness on their part. I really have no sympathy for millionaires.
 
Old 01-24-2011, 01:13 PM
 
13,507 posts, read 16,977,747 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avienne View Post
"Whacked?" Are you saying that people who own their houses shouldn't have to pay property tax on them?

Call me a leftist, but if someone has a high net worth, it's not going to kill them to pay their fair share of taxes. They're not even going to feel it, and them grousing about it is just greed and selfishness on their part. I really have no sympathy for millionaires.

No I'm not saying that people shouldn't have to pay property taxes. Nothing I said alluded to that in any way, shape, or form.

You realize there are questions of degree, right Avienne? Not everything is black and white, there are some areas in between.

My point was that a millionaire retiree living in, let's say, your fabled million dollar house, is more likely than not paying over 25K in taxes a year. Whether that is too much or not enough relative to someone living in a 400K paying 10K is a worthy discussion.

Again, how any of this justifies paying cops as if they are Doctors, when you don't have to and shouldn't, I'm still trying to figure out.
 
Old 01-24-2011, 03:14 PM
 
Location: Long Island
56,954 posts, read 25,911,628 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pequaman View Post
To follow up to my last post, here are some ideas to fix the problem:

-Property tax cap of 2% or the CPI.

-Give states the right to declare bankruptcy so they can rectify the embezzlement (union contracts) of the past, in case things get out of hand in the bond market.

-Forbid unions from giving money to politicians and political candidates, and use the union dues to boost new recruits' salaries, instead of lining the pockets of a few union bosses.

-"Grandfather-in" current county workers into the pension system, however changing the pension payout to 50% of the average of the 3 median income years they worked. Strip OT out of this calculation.

-All new recruits receive higher starting salaries, but have to contribute to their own 401k type plan. They can fund their own retirement in risk-free government bonds or riskier type assets depending on their preference.

-County workers must contribute at least 10% to their health care plans.

Problem solved.
Great suggestions, it will be interesting to see if the property tax cap is enacted and if they try to find a way around it. Taxpayers are at a huge disadvantage on the state level with the unions. I am a proponent of public financing on all levels, lobbying has become the largest growth industry at the federal and state level and has corrupted the system.
 
Old 01-24-2011, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Long Island
56,954 posts, read 25,911,628 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avienne View Post
50% of health care? Who pays that? What kind of cheapo workplace offers such garbage insurance to their employees? None I've ever worked for, and I certainly would not expect a civil servant to accept that, either. Ye gods.

Federal government employees pay approximately 25% why should some civil servants pay nothing to less than 10%? That's is even less than some private companies.

Insurance Programs
 
Old 01-24-2011, 03:48 PM
 
Location: Long Island
56,954 posts, read 25,911,628 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pequaman View Post
Actually, that is false. That is median "household" income you are referring to -- That means 3 people in Nassau county earn that much, as the median household size is 3.05.
Here is the real info you are looking for (source: Nassau County, New York - Selected Economic Characteristics: 2005-2009

Nassau County
Median household income (dollars) $92,450
Median earnings for male full-time, year-round workers (dollars) $65,663
Median earnings for female full-time, year-round workers (dollars) $49,749

Nassau County (NCPD) Police & Fire
Median Pay (2010) $129,213.34
Avg of Top 1000 Pay (Top 40% Bracket) $157,089.77
Avg of Top 250 Pay (Top 10% Bracket) $179,782.06

source: seethroughny

So yeah, $130k median pay for NCPD is 2x the median income for full time male workers living in Nassau County. And it is 2.6x the median income for full time female workers. Plus all the amazing benefits given to county workers, like defined-benefit pension plans, unrealistic raises 3x the rate of the private sector (the rest of us), education credits, no-layoff provisions, paying nothing into their health care plans, and oodles of other spectacular benefits.
The median pay is absolutely stunning, additionally close to 2000 of the 2500 employees are over $100,000. I don't see how anyone can state that is money well spent, a median salary of $129,000 for a policeman is absolutely insane and unsustainable.

The median salary for Nassau from the DOL was $977 per week or $50,804 for 2nd Quarter 2009 on page 5.

http://stats.bls.gov/ro2/qcew9350.pdf
 
Old 01-24-2011, 04:46 PM
 
929 posts, read 2,062,902 times
Reputation: 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avienne View Post

I'll also remind you that the reason many people become civil servants in the first place is for the benefits. I see where you are aiming to take down the ones who are well-paid, but if you were to succeed, you set a precedent and the rest would probably follow--and then you wouldn't be able to hire anyone remotely qualified for your recovery centers, your roads, your tax processing, the DMV, the water authority, etc. There would be absolutely no draw to work as, say, a social worker, in the civil service for $32K a year without excellent benefits. Likewise, you will probably stir the ire of the UWUA/AFL-CIO, and if you think the PBA is a tough negotiator, wait until you deal with them. Granted, there are only about 400 members in their NY local, but they just fought off a demand for employee health care plan contribution for their members and got a contract (http://uwua.net/local-spotlight/local-393-ratifies-contract-with-suffolk-county-water-authority.html - broken link) ratified through June 2013 with the Suffolk County Water Authority.

It's all well and good to cry for cuts and make demands of your higher paid civil servants like cops and teachers, but you run the risk of setting a precedent that will have you dealing with unions who can strike. At the very least, you could end up waiting for your tax refunds longer than you like and end up sitting at the DMV for twice as long because you'll have a tough time recruiting people into lower paying civil service jobs without the lure of good benefits.

Theoretical? Perhaps. But I wouldn't be surprised if that's what happened should you get your way.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/10/ny...ions.html?_r=1

Actually, it seems like there is a large rift growing between public unions and private industry unions like the AFL-CIO who are having huge issues because of the economy in NY. They even believe that the public sector unions are not sacrificing to help NY get out of the bad economy that we are in.

Are you saying that we shouldn't go after overstuffed teacher/police salaries and benefits because the smaller employees might be hurt. If they don't like the employment conditions they could always try to find a new job with better benefits and salary. That is their right. Plus, market conditions will dictate employment, if the salary goes down too much then it will have to be raised until we can fill the position with someone who is qualified.

Just like, if we lowered police salaries to 25k/year I'm pretty sure all the POs would quit. We would have to raise them to a point where we could get qualified people to take the job. The problem right now is that we're paying much more then we need to pay in order to find qualified candidates, and their is no need to overpay for employees in a market with 10% unemployment.
 
Old 01-26-2011, 06:05 AM
 
13,507 posts, read 16,977,747 times
Reputation: 9688
Quote:
Originally Posted by truthone View Post
Your are like a politician. You skate around the issues. I didn't say would you like more money into rotting infrastructure etc, I said would YOU pay more of YOUR money for the above. Your complaining here is all about police. There are about 120 cops employed in a pct that encompasses the area of many villages that employ hundreds of teachers, staff and admin. Your taxes are high because of the schools. You sit here and type about police because of your jealousy. If you can't afford your taxes its because your paying big taxes for schools, and you don't have a decent job. The PD has been scaled back so much that you don't even know what services your not getting and there will be more cut. Now Bloomberg is trying to take the variable supplement bill away from NYPD cops. What do you think of that. You can't think they make to much. Or do you just dislike all cops because of some time you spent in the slammmer. The variable supplement bill was turned into a defined benefit of $12,000 a years when the NYPD Unions gave them the members monies from the union that formed that fund. Now 25 years later the city has amnesia and is trying to take it away. I believe these politicians were lawyers once. May be they need to refresh their memory on what a contract is.Instead of playing on the computer all day may be you should get another job to pay your taxes. I wasn't on here for a while because I went to work
Police cost much more per head than any teacher.

Going after the teachers first because they are the most numerous is very convenient for you since you are a cop.

It's like saying you shouldn't stop the abuses by attorneys working for the school districts in nassau because in the grand scheme of things they don't cost the taxpayer as much as 100 teachers. Very convenient for the crooked attorney.

You should start with the biggest comps first. Police brass, school administrators, cops, teachers, in that order. All of their comp needs to come down a certain pecentage (and if it all did the taxpayer would see a real savings, but there is a question of degree.
 
Old 01-26-2011, 03:08 PM
 
929 posts, read 2,062,902 times
Reputation: 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by truthone View Post
Your are like a politician. You skate around the issues. I didn't say would you like more money into rotting infrastructure etc, I said would YOU pay more of YOUR money for the above. Your complaining here is all about police. There are about 120 cops employed in a pct that encompasses the area of many villages that employ hundreds of teachers, staff and admin. Your taxes are high because of the schools. You sit here and type about police because of your jealousy. If you can't afford your taxes its because your paying big taxes for schools, and you don't have a decent job. The PD has been scaled back so much that you don't even know what services your not getting and there will be more cut. Now Bloomberg is trying to take the variable supplement bill away from NYPD cops. What do you think of that. You can't think they make to much. Or do you just dislike all cops because of some time you spent in the slammmer. The variable supplement bill was turned into a defined benefit of $12,000 a years when the NYPD Unions gave them the members monies from the union that formed that fund. Now 25 years later the city has amnesia and is trying to take it away. I believe these politicians were lawyers once. May be they need to refresh their memory on what a contract is.Instead of playing on the computer all day may be you should get another job to pay your taxes. I wasn't on here for a while because I went to work
Really? Is this a serious post? I hope your not a police officer, because you're not helping their cause by posting here. And yes, my issue with police salaries from the two years I spent in county prison, the 3 DWIs I have, and the fact that I make only $15,000 per year. It's definitely not the fact that my police and school taxes on my property and business could have paid a nice salary to hire another employee for my business. Taking one person off the roles of unemployment and giving them a solid job.

I love the fact that police backers point their fingers at the teachers and the teachers point their fingers at the cops. They're in the same boat and could all deal with a nice 40% pay and benefits cut. Plus, the fact that police don't make up the bulk of our tax budget doesn't mean that bloated salaries don't matter. That's the same thing the CEO of AIG said when he was approached about his bloated salary.

I think the NYC pay scale for police is fair, maybe a little high towards the high end, but comparing a NYC police officer to Suffolk PD is not a serious debate.
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