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Old 02-01-2011, 03:56 PM
 
1,283 posts, read 1,643,886 times
Reputation: 1155

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yzette View Post
PD already answered that: LEOs get hurt on the job in suburbia.

The links just show you where.
No, the links show that cops get hurt not why they should get the salary and benefits they do. I was assuming you would be able to explain that computation.

 
Old 02-01-2011, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Wellsville, Glurt County
2,845 posts, read 10,483,625 times
Reputation: 1417
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdcnret View Post
You must have missed the part about cops being shot and killed in places other than the big, bad city. It's happening now in large cities and small towns across America (12 cops in 11 days.)

And FYI, your pal dman raised the danger issue with one of his usual sarcastic comments. And you're the only one arguing about unions.

That about covers it.
Is it happening on Long Island, though? Nope...

Regardless of who brought it up, I don't think it should ever be an issue. If it was dman then shame on him, but I've been reading comments (maybe they were deleted) like that for several days now...

The only thing this or any thread regarding this topic should be concerned with is (like tomonlineli just mentioned) can we get the same quality of work from replacements at a lower level of compensation, and thus a lower cost to county residents (yes, obviously) and how exactly does the county or state accomplish that? If there is some way to keep the same exact compensation levels intact and bring their relative tax cost down to a respectable level, I'm all for that. Despite what some people would have you believe, along with the ridiculously presumptuous title of this thread, the debate is solely a budget/tax issue and terms like deserve, danger, jealousy etc. have no place in it, IMO. Police officers and teachers are just the most visible targets of an incredibly broken system - but it is broken and it is benefiting a minority at the expense of the masses. That's the topic.
 
Old 02-01-2011, 04:17 PM
 
157 posts, read 152,877 times
Reputation: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by dman72 View Post
There were 186 police officers killed in 2007. The majority of them in traffic accidents.

There were 167 people killed working in retail the same year. 58% of those deaths are due to homicides, the leading cause of death.

Working late-night retail dangerous job

Police deaths up sharply in 2007 - U.S. news - Crime & courts - msnbc.com

Again, this is nation wide. A lot of those places where cops get killed regularly, being a cop is not a lottery ticket job.

It's much safer to be a cop on LI than most places in the US.
There are alot more people working retail in the US than there are cops
 
Old 02-01-2011, 04:25 PM
 
157 posts, read 152,877 times
Reputation: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by sean sean sean sean View Post
Is it happening on Long Island, though? Nope...

Regardless of who brought it up, I don't think it should ever be an issue. If it was dman then shame on him, but I've been reading comments (maybe they were deleted) like that for several days now...

The only thing this or any thread regarding this topic should be concerned with is (like tomonlineli just mentioned) can we get the same quality of work from replacements at a lower level of compensation, and thus a lower cost to county residents (yes, obviously) and how exactly does the county or state accomplish that? If there is some way to keep the same exact compensation levels intact and bring their relative tax cost down to a respectable level, I'm all for that. Despite what some people would have you believe, along with the ridiculously presumptuous title of this thread, the debate is solely a budget/tax issue and terms like deserve, danger, jealousy etc. have no place in it, IMO. Police officers and teachers are just the most visible targets of an incredibly broken system - but it is broken and it is benefiting a minority at the expense of the masses. That's the topic.
The lower the pay the less quality of the applicant. Look at the pay for NYPD School security and traffic agents. Look at some of the quality of applicants for that job. The only good ones are the ones using it to step up to NYPD. During this recession you prob could get applicants for lower pay. The recession won't be here forever, and civil service does not work that way. Laws were put into place to stop cronyism, favoritism and abuse. If civil service laws, seniority, unions , and cotracts were ablolished it would be only a few years before much of the stuff that went on in the beginning of the century would be happening again
 
Old 02-01-2011, 04:30 PM
 
Location: Wellsville, Glurt County
2,845 posts, read 10,483,625 times
Reputation: 1417
Quote:
Originally Posted by sean sean sean sean View Post
Despite what some people would have you believe, along with the ridiculously presumptuous title of this thread, the debate is solely a budget/tax issue and terms like deserve, danger, jealousy etc. have no place in it, IMO. Police officers and teachers are just the most visible targets of an incredibly broken system - but it is broken and it is benefiting a minority at the expense of the masses. That's the topic.
With that in mind, and because this thread is just getting annihilated constantly, lemme try to do a "reboot" of sorts here and explain something I think is probably the biggest cause for all the BS between both sides...

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't want to take anything away from anyone who has already been guaranteed it in writing. The contract negotiation process and state legislation that has gotten us to this point has been incredibly unfair to the taxpayers of Long Island and New York State, however it would be just as unfair (and hypocritical) of us to demand, for instance, someone who has been guaranteed $106k or whatever base salary suddenly be reduced to a $70k base salary. I only want to radically change these whole processes going forward for new hires. Perhaps that's why we've sat here so long with absolutely nothing being done by Albany to rectify the situation... because it's only solution is a long term solution, one whose savings will not manifest themselves until long after any elected official's term limits run out. IMO, anything that could or should be done with relation to already employed civil servants should only be incredibly limited. Perhaps something like limits on O/T or redesigning pension structure... not massive mandatory pay cuts or elimination of current benefits entirely. The only way any of that is gonna happen is if we are in major financial disaster mode and the state/county/etc. is in danger of going bankrupt.

I think more people on here agree with THAT than what it's always assumed the argument is. And again, the SOLE REASON how much police officers or teachers are compensated is even an issue is because that cost weighs heavy on local spending and taxes. Not because someone only makes $60k a year and is jealous that they didn't take a civil service test. That accusation is ridiculous. Speaking for myself alone here, I'm young enough that, if I really wanted to, I could very easily drop everything I'm doing, take one of those tests and wait to get called. I'm not interested in that, I'm only interested in 15-20 years from now Long Island still being a fantastic place to live and raise a family, and also being a little more affordable and friendly to business/development.
 
Old 02-01-2011, 04:42 PM
 
157 posts, read 152,877 times
Reputation: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by sean sean sean sean View Post
With that in mind, and because this thread is just getting annihilated constantly, lemme try to do a "reboot" of sorts here and explain something I think is probably the biggest cause for all the BS between both sides...

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't want to take anything away from anyone who has already been guaranteed it in writing. The contract negotiation process and state legislation that has gotten us to this point has been incredibly unfair to the taxpayers of Long Island and New York State, however it would be just as unfair (and hypocritical) of us to demand, for instance, someone who has been guaranteed $106k or whatever base salary suddenly be reduced to a $70k base salary. I only want to radically change these whole processes going forward for new hires. Perhaps that's why we've sat here so long with absolutely nothing being done by Albany to rectify the situation... because it's only solution is a long term solution, one whose savings will not manifest themselves until long after any elected official's term limits run out. IMO, anything that could or should be done with relation to already employed civil servants should only be incredibly limited. Perhaps something like limits on O/T or redesigning pension structure... not massive mandatory pay cuts or elimination of current benefits entirely. The only way any of that is gonna happen is if we are in major financial disaster mode and the state/county/etc. is in danger of going bankrupt.

I think more people on here agree with THAT than what it's always assumed the argument is. And again, the SOLE REASON how much police officers or teachers are compensated is even an issue is because that cost weighs heavy on local spending and taxes. Not because someone only makes $60k a year and is jealous that they didn't take a civil service test. That accusation is ridiculous. Speaking for myself alone here, I'm young enough that, if I really wanted to, I could very easily drop everything I'm doing, take one of those tests and wait to get called. I'm not interested in that, I'm only interested in 15-20 years from now Long Island still being a fantastic place to live and raise a family, and also being a little more affordable and friendly to business/development.
Most of what you wrote makes sense. But there are certain members on this thread that have posted in so many words that it was not only the taxes but that a PO should not earn a certain amount of compensation . In regards to OT if one PO doesn't make it another will. You can't limit arrest and court OT either. And it doesn't make sense to hire to many officers to trip over each other( or work plain clothes, but no one wants to spend money for that any more) in Feb to stop OT in July. That PO will cost more for his salary and beni's than OT
 
Old 02-01-2011, 05:23 PM
 
8,679 posts, read 15,236,082 times
Reputation: 15342
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmrlongisland View Post
No, the links show that cops get hurt not why they should get the salary and benefits they do. I was assuming you would be able to explain that computation.
See: Cost of living on Long Island. Also, see my posting history. I have explained my thinking over and over and over again. At this point, sorry you're new to the discussion, but I can't stand repeating myself. It's tedious.

Now, $100K doesn't go far here. To compare a cop here to a cop living in an area that's half as expensive and expect him or her to make that salary is ridiculous.

I think the police here earn every penny they make for all the risks they take. There is no need for me to justify that. If you disagree with the status quo, it's on you to provide justification for why it should be changed.
 
Old 02-01-2011, 05:38 PM
 
8,679 posts, read 15,236,082 times
Reputation: 15342
Quote:
Originally Posted by sean sean sean sean View Post
The contract negotiation process and state legislation that has gotten us to this point has been incredibly unfair to the taxpayers of Long Island and New York State, however it would be just as unfair (and hypocritical) of us to demand, for instance, someone who has been guaranteed $106k or whatever base salary suddenly be reduced to a $70k base salary. I only want to radically change these whole processes going forward for new hires. Perhaps that's why we've sat here so long with absolutely nothing being done by Albany to rectify the situation... because it's only solution is a long term solution, one whose savings will not manifest themselves until long after any elected official's term limits run out. IMO, anything that could or should be done with relation to already employed civil servants should only be incredibly limited. Perhaps something like limits on O/T or redesigning pension structure... not massive mandatory pay cuts or elimination of current benefits entirely. The only way any of that is gonna happen is if we are in major financial disaster mode and the state/county/etc. is in danger of going bankrupt.
Thing is, quite a few people here do want to make those massive salary cuts for existing civil servants, and quite a few people here do want to strip existing pensions and benefits from those who were promised them when they signed up. The outcry is, "We can't afford it anymore! If we have to take cuts, they should take cuts! If we lose our pensions, so should they! They shouldn't have guaranteed anything because WE don't have guaranteed anything!"

Once someone starts going on about how civil servants should assume retirement risk because they, themselves, have to assume retirement risk, yes, it smacks of resentfulness and envy. Why? Because if the economy was booming, you'd never hear a peep out of the complainers. My hunch is that those who scream loudest about pensions are those who probably lost a good bit of their own retirement in the crash. Well, that is not a civil servant's fault. That is their money manager's fault, that is their fault for playing the market, and that is Wall Street's fault for being exploitative.

If change comes, it will come slowly. Not only is that the nature of politics and bureaucracy, that is the nature of Long Island, which is stuck in the 1980s in more ways than one.
 
Old 02-01-2011, 06:10 PM
 
324 posts, read 334,026 times
Reputation: 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yzette View Post
Why? Because if the economy was booming, you'd never hear a peep out of the complainers.
Prove this statement. In other posts I believe it was you who was saying that people have been complaining about cops and teacher's salaries since the inception of city-data. FYI the economy boomed from 2003-2007. Now, you say we'd never hear a peep out of the complainers if the economy were booming. Sorry, you can't have it both ways. Your logic and hunches are flawed.
 
Old 02-01-2011, 06:37 PM
 
324 posts, read 334,026 times
Reputation: 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yzette View Post
Don't be so sure that LI cops have it easier than any other suburban cops. In fact, given the rise of MS-13 and other gangs in the area and the heroin problem, I'd wager they might actually have it tougher than their peers in other suburban environments.
You'd wager? Let's stick with the facts, which show Nassau is the safest it's been in years and one of the safest (and wealthiest) counties in the USA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yzette View Post
I have no problems with their compensation. Y'all can keep flogging this dead horse all you want, but my mind is made up, just as yours is. The difference between you and me is that I don't have to put any effort into this. As has been said many times on this thread and others, if you don't like something, get off your arse and do something to change it. As far as I can tell, all people on this board do is whine and complain, which, contrary to what they want to believe, changes nothing, starts nothing, and results in nothing.

I know, because I've asked them what they've done and how their ideas were received by those who actually have the power to implement change, and I met with silence.

This thread, and all the others like it, is nothing but hot air. But go on. Complain if it makes you feel better.
Posting that this discussion is a waste of time is pointless. If you don't want to be part of the discussion, don't click on the thread. But saying this is a waste of time is only derails the topic. It's also a bit hypocritical, especially after numerous posts in this thread.
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