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Most of what you wrote makes sense. But there are certain members on this thread that have posted in so many words that it was not only the taxes but that a PO should not earn a certain amount of compensation . In regards to OT if one PO doesn't make it another will. You can't limit arrest and court OT either. And it doesn't make sense to hire to many officers to trip over each other( or work plain clothes, but no one wants to spend money for that any more) in Feb to stop OT in July. That PO will cost more for his salary and beni's than OT
If the NCPD salary were cut by $15,000, the average would be $115,000. That cut would net the county an additional $10 million at least. That could be used to hire more cops. I don't mind having more cops "trip over eachother" as you put it. Police presence is a great deterrent and we could use it. OT dropping would be a side bonus. The additional officers should be a welcome opportunity for the NCPD as it would make for safer conditions for the police.
I have no problem with the level of service I'm getting from the county police. They are professional and effective. However I feel they have benefited from a broken system in a disproportionate manner. It's not a matter of envy or jealousy, but what's fair and what's right. Why should I pay $30,000 for a car when I can get the exact same car for $25,000? This is the same concept - no envy, jealousy, or PO hatred involved.
If the NCPD salary were cut by $15,000, the average would be $115,000. That cut would net the county an additional $10 million at least. That could be used to hire more cops. I don't mind having more cops "trip over eachother" as you put it. Police presence is a great deterrent and we could use it. OT dropping would be a side bonus. The additional officers should be a welcome opportunity for the NCPD as it would make for safer conditions for the police.
I have no problem with the level of service I'm getting from the county police. They are professional and effective. However I feel they have benefited from a broken system in a disproportionate manner. It's not a matter of envy or jealousy, but what's fair and what's right. Why should I pay $30,000 for a car when I can get the exact same car for $25,000? This is the same concept - no envy, jealousy, or PO hatred involved.
Well that is your opinion, but I will never say 100 % but 99 % the salaries will not be dropped. You would best spend your energies trying to stop them from going up, which is gonna be hard for you guys to do until 2015, but good luck! In the mean time I am in my last three years so I will be doin what you guys hate so much, and when I am done I am gonna go get a job with the feds with my VA Disabled points. So this is the path I chose. Hey it worked for me. I am sorry if things are not working out for you. Hopefully if I don't get one of those big 3% raises in the next three years you guys can save an extra 100 bucks a year or what ever it is. It'll make you guys feel really good and won't really effect me to much anyway. I'll just tell my wife one Sat night I gotta work OT instead
Prove this statement. In other posts I believe it was you who was saying that people have been complaining about cops and teacher's salaries since the inception of city-data. FYI the economy boomed from 2003-2007. Now, you say we'd never hear a peep out of the complainers if the economy were booming. Sorry, you can't have it both ways. Your logic and hunches are flawed.
Sorry she's right When the economy is good no one ever complains about civil servants pay....Trust me I've seen it form both sides.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABACAB
You'd wager? Let's stick with the facts, which show Nassau is the safest it's been in years and one of the safest (and wealthiest) counties in the USA.
The reason why they get paid some much.....Police Officers generally get paid according to their geographical area of employment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABACAB
If the NCPD salary were cut by $15,000, the average would be $115,000. That cut would net the county an additional $10 million at least. That could be used to hire more cops. I don't mind having more cops "trip over eachother" as you put it.
WTF? Trust me you'll save a little up front but will be crushed on the back end. These new guys will hit top pay and will eventually retire costing 100's of million to the tax payers.....that 10 million saved will feel like pennies. Save a little now and let a future county Exc. deal with it later....Does that sound familiar ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABACAB
I have no problem with the level of service I'm getting from the county police. They are professional and effective. However I feel they have benefited from a broken system in a disproportionate manner. It's not a matter of envy or jealousy, but what's fair and what's right. Why should I pay $30,000 for a car when I can get the exact same car for $25,000? This is the same concept - no envy, jealousy, or PO hatred involved.
Are you comparing a Police Officer's salary to buying a car ?
Cars depreciate in value P.O.'s salaries don't...they go up over time
Using your logic form above Instead of paying 30,000 lets hire 6 @ 5,000 but eventually those 6 are going to cost you 30,000. Where are you saving ...it ends up costing you 180,000 not 5,000 . Do you understand now. These are people not cars or appliances
The lower the pay the less quality of the applicant. Look at the pay for NYPD School security and traffic agents. Look at some of the quality of applicants for that job. The only good ones are the ones using it to step up to NYPD. During this recession you prob could get applicants for lower pay. The recession won't be here forever, and civil service does not work that way. Laws were put into place to stop cronyism, favoritism and abuse. If civil service laws, seniority, unions , and cotracts were ablolished it would be only a few years before much of the stuff that went on in the beginning of the century would be happening again
Obviously we can't pay them $15/hour and expect anyone halfway decent to show up, but I think there is absolutely a point of diminishing returns on that. Even if you leave the salary what it is, are we gonna somehow attract a lower caliber of applicant if retirement is switched to a 401k? Would we get better applicants if we paid $200k base salary? I highly doubt it. This is not a matter of what people deserve or whatever, but we're talking about things that are supposed to be blue collar professions here. Not "blue collar" because I'm angry and jealous at someone, blue collar because it's financially prudent and in the best interests of the public.
The laws that were put in place to regulate how civil service compensation is determined were established at a much different time in American history and the modern interpretation has now gotten very far away from their original intention - which was, essentially, to guarantee civil servants fair and equal compensation relative to the private sector while avoiding crippling service disruptions like the NYC subway/transit strikes in the 1960s. When the Taylor Law was enacted, New York was a much different economic landscape, and it's purpose was to keep up with rapidly changing times. We haven't kept up for the last 43 years. It should have been seriously revised or replaced entirely years ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by truthone
Most of what you wrote makes sense. But there are certain members on this thread that have posted in so many words that it was not only the taxes but that a PO should not earn a certain amount of compensation . In regards to OT if one PO doesn't make it another will. You can't limit arrest and court OT either. And it doesn't make sense to hire to many officers to trip over each other( or work plain clothes, but no one wants to spend money for that any more) in Feb to stop OT in July. That PO will cost more for his salary and beni's than OT
I just threw that out there as an example, I haven't really put a lot of thought into short-term half-measures like that... although I gotta believe that at least SOMETHING can be done that's both reasonable to the people getting paid and helpful to the people paying for it. I'm more concerned with long term approaches and who in the state or county is willing to pursue them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yzette
Thing is, quite a few people here do want to make those massive salary cuts for existing civil servants, and quite a few people here do want to strip existing pensions and benefits from those who were promised them when they signed up. The outcry is, "We can't afford it anymore! If we have to take cuts, they should take cuts! If we lose our pensions, so should they! They shouldn't have guaranteed anything because WE don't have guaranteed anything!"
Once someone starts going on about how civil servants should assume retirement risk because they, themselves, have to assume retirement risk, yes, it smacks of resentfulness and envy. Why? Because if the economy was booming, you'd never hear a peep out of the complainers. My hunch is that those who scream loudest about pensions are those who probably lost a good bit of their own retirement in the crash. Well, that is not a civil servant's fault. That is their money manager's fault, that is their fault for playing the market, and that is Wall Street's fault for being exploitative.
If change comes, it will come slowly. Not only is that the nature of politics and bureaucracy, that is the nature of Long Island, which is stuck in the 1980s in more ways than one.
Do people really want to make nearly impossible massive cuts or is that just what is always assumed? ABACAB just mentioned decreasing NCPD base pay by $15k - I don't personally agree with that (at least for people already in the system... ), but that's hardly something that is going to make or break anyone if the median income here is $130k/yr. I've really never heard that argument you're claiming to be so prevalent except sarcastically from those criticizing anyone pushing for budget reform. "If we have to take cuts, they have to take cuts!" is a lot different from the economic reality that supporting this kind of spending over the last 30+ years has seriously and negatively impacted Long Island and New York State as a whole.
It's kind of insulting to assume everyone is only talking about it because they somehow lost money in the recession. I've always considered the topic rude to discuss, but I do much better now than I did 3 years ago... or even 6 years ago when it was supposedly "boom times". The problems tied to civil service spending existed long before 2007 and people were feeling them long before then. It has been a huge issue in Upstate NY for at least a decade. The recession has probably brought it to light more than anything else down here, but the complaining about one isn't a direct consequence of the other. I'd just consider it a silver-lining to a bad situation. It's really a confusing system, even now I don't think most people on LI understand why exactly we're approaching $10k average property taxes. I never understood it before I started reading posts on here, and I still can't claim to understand exactly everything about it.
If people are screaming "We can't afford it!!" that effects everyone, not just those who legitimately can't afford it.
You'd wager? Let's stick with the facts, which show Nassau is the safest it's been in years and one of the safest (and wealthiest) counties in the USA.
The facts are that reported crimes can be manipulated. Any well informed political science student can tell you that their is objective statistical data that shows large correlation between crime rates and political campaigns. Plus, if, like a lot people mention on here, the number of officers in Nassau is the lowest it's been, then their exist less police officers to report crimes. Thus, the crime rate will drop. Not saying that Nassau isn't a safe community, just stating crime rates being low as a reason why we should have the highest salaried police force is a poor argument.
The facts are that reported crimes can be manipulated. Any well informed political science student can tell you that their is objective statistical data that shows large correlation between crime rates and political campaigns. Plus, if, like a lot people mention on here, the number of officers in Nassau is the lowest it's been, then their exist less police officers to report crimes. Thus, the crime rate will drop. Not saying that Nassau isn't a safe community, just stating crime rates being low as a reason why we should have the highest salaried police force is a poor argument.
Are you kidding? It means same amount of crimes just reported to few officers. It means " DO more with less" or the officers are working harder or handling more runs. Union will use this to their advantage and ask for more pay
Yes dial 911 ......what is the 911 operator going to tell you " Sorry Sir do to the lack of officers you could not report your crime at this time ....call back at a later time"
The facts are that reported crimes can be manipulated. Any well informed political science student can tell you that their is objective statistical data that shows large correlation between crime rates and political campaigns. Plus, if, like a lot people mention on here, the number of officers in Nassau is the lowest it's been, then their exist less police officers to report crimes. Thus, the crime rate will drop. Not saying that Nassau isn't a safe community, just stating crime rates being low as a reason why we should have the highest salaried police force is a poor argument.
Minimum manning, less cops for special units, always same cops out on patrol and the reason for more OT. The county is saving money having less cops and beni's but doing double speak and complaining about the OT they knew would occur to cover the post every day
Minimum manning, less cops for special units, always same cops out on patrol and the reason for more OT. The county is saving money having less cops and beni's but doing double speak and complaining about the OT they knew would occur to cover the post every day
Speaking of minimum manning...how about no manning.
A couple of months ago during the "late" tour an outstanding member of society with numerous outstanding felony warrants decides to turn himself in to Nassau County Police Headquarters. After knocking on the door for ten minutes someone (a civilian) opens the door and tells the wanted felon " You have to come back later this afternoon....there aren't any police officers in the building at the present time" This is you Headquarters...scary stuff.
Speaking of minimum manning...how about no manning.
A couple of months ago during the "late" tour an outstanding member of society with numerous outstanding felony warrants decides to turn himself in to Nassau County Police Headquarters. After knocking on the door for ten minutes someone (a civilian) opens the door and tells the wanted felon " You have to come back later this afternoon....there aren't any police officers in the building at the present time" This is you Headquarters...scary stuff.
Yes but there is supposed to be a PO at the front desk all the time, so that sounds weird.
I would wager to say the reason there aren't more injuries and fatalities is due to the high standards of professionalism and training that the local Police academies provide to its recruits in addition to continuing education and military experience. Most of you aren't even trained to operate your remote controls properly.
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When the economy is good no one ever complains about civil servants pay....Trust me I've seen it form both sides.
