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Old 02-01-2011, 09:33 PM
 
Location: Wallens Ridge
3,122 posts, read 4,939,573 times
Reputation: 17269

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Quote:
Originally Posted by truthone View Post
Yes but there is supposed to be a PO at the front desk all the time, so that sounds weird.
Yes truth....but trust me this did happen

 
Old 02-01-2011, 09:39 PM
 
8,679 posts, read 15,236,082 times
Reputation: 15342
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMike50 View Post
Sorry she's right When the economy is good no one ever complains about civil servants pay....Trust me I've seen it form both sides.
Really. After living through several recessions now, both minor and major, I see the pattern.
 
Old 02-02-2011, 03:41 AM
 
157 posts, read 152,877 times
Reputation: 26
Up at 500 to get my wife to her civil service job in the ice because she is needed and HAS to be there. Don't worry its not your money its Bloombergs
 
Old 02-02-2011, 05:43 AM
 
Location: Massapequa Park
3,172 posts, read 6,726,755 times
Reputation: 1374
Quote:
Originally Posted by sean sean sean sean View Post
Obviously we can't pay them $15/hour and expect anyone halfway decent to show up, but I think there is absolutely a point of diminishing returns on that. Even if you leave the salary what it is, are we gonna somehow attract a lower caliber of applicant if retirement is switched to a 401k? Would we get better applicants if we paid $200k base salary? I highly doubt it. This is not a matter of what people deserve or whatever, but we're talking about things that are supposed to be blue collar professions here. Not "blue collar" because I'm angry and jealous at someone, blue collar because it's financially prudent and in the best interests of the public.

The laws that were put in place to regulate how civil service compensation is determined were established at a much different time in American history and the modern interpretation has now gotten very far away from their original intention - which was, essentially, to guarantee civil servants fair and equal compensation relative to the private sector while avoiding crippling service disruptions like the NYC subway/transit strikes in the 1960s. When the Taylor Law was enacted, New York was a much different economic landscape, and it's purpose was to keep up with rapidly changing times. We haven't kept up for the last 43 years. It should have been seriously revised or replaced entirely years ago.



I just threw that out there as an example, I haven't really put a lot of thought into short-term half-measures like that... although I gotta believe that at least SOMETHING can be done that's both reasonable to the people getting paid and helpful to the people paying for it. I'm more concerned with long term approaches and who in the state or county is willing to pursue them.



Do people really want to make nearly impossible massive cuts or is that just what is always assumed? ABACAB just mentioned decreasing NCPD base pay by $15k - I don't personally agree with that (at least for people already in the system... ), but that's hardly something that is going to make or break anyone if the median income here is $130k/yr. I've really never heard that argument you're claiming to be so prevalent except sarcastically from those criticizing anyone pushing for budget reform. "If we have to take cuts, they have to take cuts!" is a lot different from the economic reality that supporting this kind of spending over the last 30+ years has seriously and negatively impacted Long Island and New York State as a whole.

It's kind of insulting to assume everyone is only talking about it because they somehow lost money in the recession. I've always considered the topic rude to discuss, but I do much better now than I did 3 years ago... or even 6 years ago when it was supposedly "boom times". The problems tied to civil service spending existed long before 2007 and people were feeling them long before then. It has been a huge issue in Upstate NY for at least a decade. The recession has probably brought it to light more than anything else down here, but the complaining about one isn't a direct consequence of the other. I'd just consider it a silver-lining to a bad situation. It's really a confusing system, even now I don't think most people on LI understand why exactly we're approaching $10k average property taxes. I never understood it before I started reading posts on here, and I still can't claim to understand exactly everything about it.

If people are screaming "We can't afford it!!" that effects everyone, not just those who legitimately can't afford it.
Excellent post and as well thought out as any I've seen on this huge dumping depot of a thread. The last line was the most critical I think and assures me that at least some people on LI can see the road we are heading down.

I posted some ideas that I think will work to solve our spending problems and raise new recruits' salaries at the same time in Nassau County. I'm going to post them again because they're lost somewhere between pgs 15-35:

To follow up to my last post, here are some ideas to fix the problem
(*=most critical):

*-Property tax cap of 2% or the CPI.

*-Give states the right to declare bankruptcy so they can rectify the embezzlement (union contracts) of the past, in case things get out of hand in the bond market.

-Forbid unions from giving money to politicians and political candidates, and use the union dues to boost new recruits' salaries, instead of lining the pockets of a few union bosses.

-"Grandfather-in" current county workers into the pension system, however changing the pension payout to 50% of the average of the 3 median income years they worked. Strip OT out of this calculation.

-All new recruits receive higher starting salaries, but have to contribute to their own 401k type plan. They can fund their own retirement in risk-free government bonds or riskier type assets depending on their preference.

-County workers must contribute at least 10% to their health care plans.

-Reduce the amount of paid "blood days" to 1 day and provide education credits only to the employees that actually pursue an education.

Problem solved.
 
Old 02-02-2011, 07:08 AM
 
13,507 posts, read 16,979,487 times
Reputation: 9688
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yzette View Post
So what's your point? Police should be paid like retail workers? Too bad the daily duties for a police officer are much more dangerous than those of a retail worker, never mind the training and physical requirements involved. For every fatality, there are exponentially more on-the-job injuries. 60,000 injuries a year. Protecting your arse and mine.

So, sorry, not buying what you're selling. Never have, never will.
I DIDN'T SAY they should be paid like retail workers, never had, never did. What you are doing is called creating a "strawman", a lie for all intents and purposes.

I simply stated that police work on Long Island is not that dangerous, and the only reason I stated that is because someone tried to compare working as PO on LI to work security in Iraq or Afghanistan, which is complete and utter nonsense.

Last edited by dman72; 02-02-2011 at 08:12 AM..
 
Old 02-02-2011, 08:27 AM
 
8,679 posts, read 15,236,082 times
Reputation: 15342
Quote:
Originally Posted by dman72 View Post
I DIDN'T SAY they should be paid like retail workers, never had, never did. What you are doing is called creating a "strawman", a lie for all intents and purposes.

I simply stated that police work on Long Island is not that dangerous, and the only reason I stated that is because someone tried to compare working as PO on LI to work security in Iraq or Afghanistan, which is complete and utter nonsense.

Then the part about retail workers was irrelevant. That is called "being irrelevant."
 
Old 02-02-2011, 08:46 AM
 
13,507 posts, read 16,979,487 times
Reputation: 9688
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yzette View Post
Then the part about retail workers was irrelevant. That is called "being irrelevant."
So you are saying it's ok that retail workers die? Nice Avienne, nice.

(strawman)

If one says that police work is dangerous, comparing the number of deaths to other lines of work is not irrelevant....at least in this universe.

If one is trying to compare police salaries to something in private industry, and can only find private security officers who have to work in a war zone where people are in extreme peril, that pretty much proves everyone's point about police salaries right there...sure posting it is relevant, but it actually succeeds in proving the exact opposite point the original poster intended!

Nice work there too, Truth
 
Old 02-02-2011, 08:54 AM
 
939 posts, read 1,840,270 times
Reputation: 509
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomonlineli View Post
The facts are that reported crimes can be manipulated. Any well informed political science student can tell you that their is objective statistical data that shows large correlation between crime rates and political campaigns. Plus, if, like a lot people mention on here, the number of officers in Nassau is the lowest it's been, then their exist less police officers to report crimes. Thus, the crime rate will drop. Not saying that Nassau isn't a safe community, just stating crime rates being low as a reason why we should have the highest salaried police force is a poor argument.
That's some of the most convoluted and bizarre reasoning I've ever heard. Police officers don't report crime, citizens/victims do. Police investigate and compile information/statistics about crime that has already occurred, when reported by crime victims.

And since you're so big on source material, please tell us all where we can find definitive information on correlation between crime rates and political campaigns.

Finally, try looking at crime rates in jurisdictions where police salaries are low, like New Orleans. High correlation in those places between low salaries and high crime rates. And police corruption.
 
Old 02-02-2011, 09:01 AM
 
324 posts, read 334,026 times
Reputation: 189
No one wants low salaries for the police, enough hyperbole please. Let's be fair and not disproportionately benefit a select group of people solely because they are part of a broken system. As I said before, why overpay when the same service can be had for cheaper?
 
Old 02-02-2011, 09:20 AM
 
13,507 posts, read 16,979,487 times
Reputation: 9688
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABACAB View Post
No one wants low salaries for the police, enough hyperbole please. Let's be fair and not disproportionately benefit a select group of people solely because they are part of a broken system. As I said before, why overpay when the same service can be had for cheaper?
It's not only hyperbole, it's a lie.

Long Island Cops get paid like they are working in a war zone. I learned that from Truthone. If that alone doesn't point out the absurdity.


Also, it's not only salary. Everyone do yourself a favor..go on line to any of the online retirement calculators, and see how much you would have to put away into your 401K to earn 60-90K a year from the age of 35-45 until you die. Now take that amount and add it to the police salaries, because they don't pay a penny towards their pension.

Next step, check what you pay in medical at your company per month, and add that onto police salaries..for the rest of their lives...now your approaching what they really are being paid.

If you lowered max base pay to 75K while keeping the benefits in tact, being a cop would still be a fantastic deal for someone with an associates degree.
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