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Old 05-09-2011, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Long Island
56,953 posts, read 25,911,628 times
Reputation: 15478

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdcnret View Post
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So let me understand your post. It appears that you think that people with a college education should be paid more than cops -- a fairly elitist attitude. (You're probably not aware that the vast majority of cops on Long Island have college degrees. Which goes to my argument that too many on these forums have incomplete or inaccurate information regarding their police.) And you apparently don't care what the tax burden is -- you're bent out of shape over how much the individual cops are making. Why is that?

I'm not really sure what is really beyond opinion means. If you think that that the median police salary is too high, that is still your opinion...not a fact. And you are entitled to your opinion, just as everyone else is.
I don’t think it’s elitist to pay people with talent and education higher wages, isn’t that what America is about (or was), what is your criteria?

“A vast majority of cops have college degrees” Can you provide a source where you got that “fact “? What is a vast majority anyway 51%, 99%?
most certainly of all taxes and many of the salaries of superintendents, teachers, and police that contribute to the current tax levels.

“Beyond opinion” means that the mean salary of police is below the mean salary of teachers, that was relative to hypocrisy of the PBA statement that teachers salaries were too high. The argument presented by the PBA is we get a pass because no matter how high our salaries are we are still get a pass since it doesn’t add that much top your taxes.

 
Old 05-09-2011, 03:39 PM
 
939 posts, read 1,840,108 times
Reputation: 509
Quote:
Originally Posted by dman72 View Post
It is the tax burden that bothers everyone, it's just funny that the guys who are basically second on the list of causes of high propety taxes..while being a very small group of very highly compensated individuals...think they can transfer all the blame on to someoone else. A pretty poorly thought out political maneuver on the PBA's part.
Sorry, but once again, you've missed the mark. Cops are not "second on the list of causes of high property taxes." In fact, the percentage of taxes that you pay that aren't school taxes covers ALL government services -- police, fire (yes, you pay for your "volunteer" fire service), sanitation, sewers, road maintenance, parks and on and on -- on both county and town levels. And the cops are only a fraction of that percentage. ALL that government service is still less than half of the school tax alone.

You ought to spend more time reading your tax statements. and less time whining about how much cops make.

Last edited by pdcnret; 05-09-2011 at 03:56 PM..
 
Old 05-09-2011, 03:49 PM
 
939 posts, read 1,840,108 times
Reputation: 509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
I don’t think it’s elitist to pay people with talent and education higher wages, isn’t that what America is about (or was), what is your criteria?

“A vast majority of cops have college degrees” Can you provide a source where you got that “fact “? What is a vast majority anyway 51%, 99%?
most certainly of all taxes and many of the salaries of superintendents, teachers, and police that contribute to the current tax levels.

“Beyond opinion” means that the mean salary of police is below the mean salary of teachers, that was relative to hypocrisy of the PBA statement that teachers salaries were too high. The argument presented by the PBA is we get a pass because no matter how high our salaries are we are still get a pass since it doesn’t add that much top your taxes.
You assume that those who have education also have talent. You also apparently assume that those with higher education should be paid more simply because of that education. That, my friend, is elitist.

As for the number of cops with college degrees, that's well known in police circles. In Nassau, there is a defacto requirement to have a bachelor's degree to be promoted. And the vast majority of cops sit for the promotional exams. If you want actual numbers, you can do the research yourself.

By the way, I certainly hope that you're not a teacher. The coherence of your post leaves a lot to be desired.
 
Old 05-09-2011, 06:21 PM
 
13,507 posts, read 16,977,747 times
Reputation: 9688
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdcnret View Post
Sorry, but once again, you've missed the mark. Cops are not "second on the list of causes of high property taxes." In fact, the percentage of taxes that you pay that aren't school taxes covers ALL government services -- police, fire (yes, you pay for your "volunteer" fire service), sanitation, sewers, road maintenance, parks and on and on -- on both county and town levels. And the cops are only a fraction of that percentage. ALL that government service is still less than half of the school tax alone.

You ought to spend more time reading your tax statements. and less time whining about how much cops make.

On my tax bill, SCPD is 18% of the total tax levy, School tax is 58.7 percent. Not other aspect of taxes is close to these 2 numbers, so yes "skippy", it is indeed a 100% quantifiable "fact" that the second biggest tax hit on Long Islanders take on their proeperty taxes is from county police...and that 18% doesn't include the portion of sales tax that goes to police. 23% of the suffolk county budget goes to public safety, ie police. 7% goes towards education.

Against all that, you have to factor that there are 2500 cops in all of Suffolk. The Police are a very expensive service for people in Suffolk County whose cost could be cut drastically if compensation levels weren't so outrageous.
 
Old 05-09-2011, 07:37 PM
 
324 posts, read 334,026 times
Reputation: 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdcnret View Post
In fact, the percentage of taxes that you pay that aren't school taxes covers ALL government services -- police, fire (yes, you pay for your "volunteer" fire service), sanitation, sewers, road maintenance, parks and on and on -- on both county and town levels.
The percentage of property taxes that doesn't go to schools does consist of all county government services, but my tax bill shows the police making up the largest percentage of that. Of course the police portion is a fraction, but that's because anything less than the total is a fraction
 
Old 05-09-2011, 07:43 PM
 
324 posts, read 334,026 times
Reputation: 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdcnret View Post
Sorry, but there aren't any facts to support the claim that cops aren't paid too much. That, too, is an opinion. You can compare and contrast cops' salaries to other professions, to other cops across the region or the nation, or to whatever and draw conclusions about whether they're higher or lower -- and those will be the facts. Any other conclusions about whether they're too high, or too low, or justified or not are simply opinions.

As far as your second statement, that's exactly what the PBA is arguing in their PSA. It's their contention that it's not the individual income of the cops that's the issue -- it's the tax burden. Whether teachers make more or less than cops (or anyone else) is really immaterial. What matters most to the tax-paying public is how much it is costing for that service. And they know all too well that school taxes are significantly higher than taxes for other government services, including police.

Unfortunately, too many on these boards tend to sprinkle the high tax burden comments in and among their assertions that cops' jobs are easy, that cops don't do anything, that the requirements to be a cop don't justify the salaries, that there's no danger in their jobs, and on and on. Most, if not all, of these type statements are born of pure ignorance of what cops do and how they do it. Too many folks here are content to watch a few episodes of CSI or Law and Order and then figure that they know all there is to know about policing. Funny how I never felt compelled to tell an accountant how to do his job after reading a few issues of Money Magazine.
Actually, there is a fact to show the LI police are overpaid - 30,000 applicants paying $100 to take a test to be considered for 1 of 100 open positions. Historically (beyond the last 10 years), there haven't been 30,000 people sitting for the exam.

Aside from the 30,000, you can also look to the large numbers of applicants from the NYPD and other LE organizations taking the test. I'm sure there are many reasons why the LI jobs are appealing, but certainly the compensation plays a large factor.
 
Old 05-10-2011, 05:20 AM
 
Location: Long Island
56,953 posts, read 25,911,628 times
Reputation: 15478
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdcnret View Post
You assume that those who have education also have talent. You also apparently assume that those with higher education should be paid more simply because of that education. That, my friend, is elitist.

As for the number of cops with college degrees, that's well known in police circles. In Nassau, there is a defacto requirement to have a bachelor's degree to be promoted. And the vast majority of cops sit for the promotional exams. If you want actual numbers, you can do the research yourself.

By the way, I certainly hope that you're not a teacher. The coherence of your post leaves a lot to be desired.
Yes those with a higer education are paid more for the most part, you don't believe me look up the labor statistics but in Nassau County the world is upside down when it come to police.

I think you were the the one stating that posters on these type of links did not have the "facts" but the basis for your argument relative to college grads in the police force is "its well know in police circles", now there's something substantial. All the sergeants,have a bachelors degree, news to me. Still would love to know how you arrived at your vast majority conclusion.

No I am not a teacher and also take issue with some of their salaries but I guess this is your usual mode of operation, you can't back up your argument with anything but so it's time to toss insults.

Back to the original hypocritical statement by the PBA relative to teachers salaries being the problem, police salaries are in fact higher than teacher salaries so seems a bit disingenouous for them to be carrying the torch of tax reform don't you think?
 
Old 05-10-2011, 06:47 AM
 
13,507 posts, read 16,977,747 times
Reputation: 9688
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
Back to the original hypocritical statement by the PBA relative to teachers salaries being the problem, police salaries are in fact higher than teacher salaries so seems a bit disingenouous for them to be carrying the torch of tax reform don't you think?

Police TOTAL compensation (and cost to the taxpayer) is significantly higher per head than teachers when you factor in $0 towards pension, $0 towards medical and a 20 year out. Also, with the amount of vacation and sick time they are given, their time off is in the ballpark of teachers. (Just look on the SCPD and NCPD employment web sites).
 
Old 05-10-2011, 09:27 AM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
16,408 posts, read 33,216,518 times
Reputation: 7338
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
Yes those with a higer education are paid more for the most part, you don't believe me look up the labor statistics but in Nassau County the world is upside down when it come to police.

I think you were the the one stating that posters on these type of links did not have the "facts" but the basis for your argument relative to college grads in the police force is "its well know in police circles", now there's something substantial. All the sergeants,have a bachelors degree, news to me. Still would love to know how you arrived at your vast majority conclusion.

No I am not a teacher and also take issue with some of their salaries but I guess this is your usual mode of operation, you can't back up your argument with anything but so it's time to toss insults.

Back to the original hypocritical statement by the PBA relative to teachers salaries being the problem, police salaries are in fact higher than teacher salaries so seems a bit disingenouous for them to be carrying the torch of tax reform don't you think?
That's for sure.

The world is upside down in both Nassau and Suffolk when it comes to police and teachers.

EVERY other profession pays MORE in NYC than on LI.

Yet in NYC teachers and police are paid less than on LI.

It doesn't even seem to matter that NYC is more expensive to live in and more dangerous than LI. LI cannot even use the excuse "it's more dangerous ... that's why we get paid more" or "it's more expensive ... that's why we must be paid more"! The real reason? Stronger and better connected UNIONS on LI than in NYC.
 
Old 05-10-2011, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Wallens Ridge
3,122 posts, read 4,939,138 times
Reputation: 17269
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but View Post
That's for sure.

The world is upside down in both Nassau and Suffolk when it comes to police and teachers.

EVERY other profession pays MORE in NYC than on LI.

Yet in NYC teachers and police are paid less than on LI.

It doesn't even seem to matter that NYC is more expensive to live in and more dangerous than LI. LI cannot even use the excuse "it's more dangerous ... that's why we get paid more" or "it's more expensive ... that's why we must be paid more"! The real reason? Stronger and better connected UNIONS on LI than in NYC.

When does it end ? If anyone knows anything about police salaries across the country is that.....the highest paid Officers work in Suburbs outside of Major cities. This is not just a Nassau and Suffolk Phenomenon. I explain many times that it cost more per 911 call in NYC than it does on the Island. You have to factor in so many variables(the amount of officers,2 man cars vs. 1 car, unlimited sick, volunteer ems and firemen, etc,etc) Trust me you can't compare the two even thought they do basically the same job. I posted this before but it seems everyone simply forgets or are so truly blindsided by the high taxes they pay that they don't care about real facts.

People that live by me (not the transplants) also complain about Civil servant salaries and they don't make half as much here as they do on the Island. So you guys pay the most in taxes, so I guess you should be the most vocal but in reality all things being equal it's all the same.

Teachers are different but that a whole other issue. If they streamline things there like they do here you would be paying a whole lot less. Probably around half even with what you consider large salaries. The only way I could see teachers justify there salaries against teachers in NYC is that there are far less of them and just compare the test scores of the students... NYC Vs. L.I. and use "you get what you pay for" angle.

Bottom line I feel is that civil servants have huge advantage in a downward economy and people in general are getting pissed off. With their secure jobs and pensions it feels like their being taking care of but in private sectors it's every man for himself, no one (Gov) is looking out for them. Isn't things a lot better when there is a wall street scam going on, it hides all this nonsense....
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