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Yes those with a higer education are paid more for the most part, you don't believe me look up the labor statistics but in Nassau County the world is upside down when it come to police.
I think you were the the one stating that posters on these type of links did not have the "facts" but the basis for your argument relative to college grads in the police force is "its well know in police circles", now there's something substantial. All the sergeants,have a bachelors degree, news to me. Still would love to know how you arrived at your vast majority conclusion.
No I am not a teacher and also take issue with some of their salaries but I guess this is your usual mode of operation, you can't back up your argument with anything but so it's time to toss insults.
Back to the original hypocritical statement by the PBA relative to teachers salaries being the problem, police salaries are in fact higher than teacher salaries so seems a bit disingenouous for them to be carrying the torch of tax reform don't you think?
You can't seem to let go of the idea that those with the most education should be paid the most. That's part of the pablum that was fed to Generation X for years. Anything other than white collar, professional work is for the rabble and we should paid princely sums for having survived four (five, six, or more) years of higher education. That's pure nonsense.
As far as college education in the police department, those of us who worked in the police department know that the vast majority of cops hold college degrees. By your own admission, you know little about the police department and are therefore unaware that most of them have degrees. Interesting that you make that admission, but won't accept the word of someone who spent a lifetime working there. Bottom line is that if you want numbers, go and do your own research. I know what I know and I'm not going to waste my time for some anonymous malcontent on a chat forum.
And as far as my comment about your post, well, it's not an insult, it's an observation. It's incoherent. Incomplete thoughts, run on sentences and lack of/improper punctuation. The vast majority of us police personnel with college degrees recognize this. Perhaps you should put some more time into making your posts understandable.
On my tax bill, SCPD is 18% of the total tax levy, School tax is 58.7 percent. Not other aspect of taxes is close to these 2 numbers, so yes "skippy", it is indeed a 100% quantifiable "fact" that the second biggest tax hit on Long Islanders take on their proeperty taxes is from county police...and that 18% doesn't include the portion of sales tax that goes to police. 23% of the suffolk county budget goes to public safety, ie police. 7% goes towards education.
Against all that, you have to factor that there are 2500 cops in all of Suffolk. The Police are a very expensive service for people in Suffolk County whose cost could be cut drastically if compensation levels weren't so outrageous.
Please enlighten us as to how 7% of the Suffolk budget goes toward education, since there is no county budget for education (except BOCES.) For most of us 60% (or more) of our tax bills go to education (individual school districts) -- and the remainder to a whole host of town and county services. But then, you have your own way of looking at things, Skippy.
And let's dispense with the drama. As far as compensation levels being "outrageous", again, that's nothing more than your opinion. Not a statement of fact. Not a universal truth. Not a biblical pronouncement. Just your opinion.
Please enlighten us as to how 7% of the Suffolk budget goes toward education, since there is no county budget for education (except BOCES.) For most of us 60% (or more) of our tax bills go to education (individual school districts) -- and the remainder to a whole host of town and county services. But then, you have your own way of looking at things, Skippy.
And let's dispense with the drama. As far as compensation levels being "outrageous", again, that's your opinion, not a battle cry.
Community College.
I believe it's 50% student tuition, 23% County, and 27% State or something along those lines.
I believe it's 50% student tuition, 23% County, and 27% State or something along those lines.
While I accept that, the point is that any part of the county budget designated for education will be for either BOCES or for community colleges. But none of it is for local school districts. The local districts have stand along budgets. Somebody seems to be having some difficulty reading and interpreting his tax statements.
You can't seem to let go of the idea that those with the most education should be paid the most. That's part of the pablum that was fed to Generation X for years. Anything other than white collar, professional work is for the rabble and we should paid princely sums for having survived four (five, six, or more) years of higher education. That's pure nonsense.
As far as college education in the police department, those of us who worked in the police department know that the vast majority of cops hold college degrees. By your own admission, you know little about the police department and are therefore unaware that most of them have degrees. Interesting that you make that admission, but won't accept the word of someone who spent a lifetime working there. Bottom line is that if you want numbers, go and do your own research. I know what I know and I'm not going to waste my time for some anonymous malcontent on a chat forum.
And as far as my comment about your post, well, it's not an insult, it's an observation. It's incoherent. Incomplete thoughts, run on sentences and lack of/improper punctuation. The vast majority of us police personnel with college degrees recognize this. Perhaps you should put some more time into making your posts understandable.
Well if you didn’t understand my posts you most definitely have a comprehension problem, not meant to be an insult, just and observation. I actually know quite a few policemen, most of whom are retired now and not one of them has a bachelors degree (my inner circle, trust me). Just more assertions on your part, but little in the way of facts, statistics and critical analysis are evidently not your strong suit.
You’re right let’s pay someone that can walk on the job with 2 years of college credits princely sums rather than someone with a master’s degree, that’s just an elitist philosophy. Maybe we should just drop the education requirement for teachers all together, dam elitists.
Anyway thanks for not answering one thing about the original post that was relative to police salaries vs. teachers, please don’t waste anymore time on what is obviously an “anonymous malcontent” especially since you have no facts to back up your argument other than your "insiders circle".
You can't seem to let go of the idea that those with the most education should be paid the most. That's part of the pablum that was fed to Generation X for years. Anything other than white collar, professional work is for the rabble and we should paid princely sums for having survived four (five, six, or more) years of higher education. That's pure nonsense.
As far as college education in the police department, those of us who worked in the police department know that the vast majority of cops hold college degrees. By your own admission, you know little about the police department and are therefore unaware that most of them have degrees. Interesting that you make that admission, but won't accept the word of someone who spent a lifetime working there. Bottom line is that if you want numbers, go and do your own research. I know what I know and I'm not going to waste my time for some anonymous malcontent on a chat forum.
And as far as my comment about your post, well, it's not an insult, it's an observation. It's incoherent. Incomplete thoughts, run on sentences and lack of/improper punctuation. The vast majority of us police personnel with college degrees recognize this. Perhaps you should put some more time into making your posts understandable.
You are completely missing the point about education and the police department.
I don't think most people automatically feel that someone who can make it through clown college for 4 years is deserving of riches and anyone who hasn't should make peanuts. The point beneath most of the complaints regarding police compensation has more to do with how high the compensation level is, and how low the barrier to entry is to become a cop.
Let's face it, the bulk of the battle is having a good Saturday and scoring well on the test. Some of that is luck, some of that is intelligence, and some of that is the points given to vets (if that still exists).
The credit check, background check, psycological test, physicial fitness test, etc is all noise to ensure a delinquent doesn't get on the force (and none of that is fool proof - see the NCPD cop who played with his gun while drunk in a bar).
The FACT is 30,000 applicants, with most paying $100, for 100 positions tells me and anyone with half a brain and no biases that the LI police jobs are over compensated.
Sorry, but there aren't any facts to support the claim that cops aren't paid too much. That, too, is an opinion. You can compare and contrast cops' salaries to other professions, to other cops across the region or the nation, or to whatever and draw conclusions about whether they're higher or lower -- and those will be the facts. Any other conclusions about whether they're too high, or too low, or justified or not are simply opinions.
As far as your second statement, that's exactly what the PBA is arguing in their PSA. It's their contention that it's not the individual income of the cops that's the issue -- it's the tax burden. Whether teachers make more or less than cops (or anyone else) is really immaterial. What matters most to the tax-paying public is how much it is costing for that service. And they know all too well that school taxes are significantly higher than taxes for other government services, including police.
Unfortunately, too many on these boards tend to sprinkle the high tax burden comments in and among their assertions that cops' jobs are easy, that cops don't do anything, that the requirements to be a cop don't justify the salaries, that there's no danger in their jobs, and on and on. Most, if not all, of these type statements are born of pure ignorance of what cops do and how they do it. Too many folks here are content to watch a few episodes of CSI or Law and Order and then figure that they know all there is to know about policing. Funny how I never felt compelled to tell an accountant how to do his job after reading a few issues of Money Magazine.
I have to agree with you. It goes back to the notion--which I posited so long ago on these boards that you'd have to search the threads because it's not even in my history anymore--is that when determining what other people's jobs are worth, it's all subjective and varies according to one's own value system. There are plenty of professions out there that I think are overrated and overpaid. Law enforcement and teaching are not among them.
Good point about the accountant, too. When people get up there and criticize how those in other lines of work do their jobs, I usually say the same thing, only with surgeons: Would you tell a surgeon how to remove your spleen? No? Okay, then don't tell another highly trained and specialized professional how to his or her job, either--especially if your life depends on how that person performs.
Last week I met a retired cop at my mechanic's. The fellow drove up in a Lexus SUV and I thought, "Oh, the people on C-D would LOVE this, boy howdy. The air would be positively saturated with value judgments on whether this fellow should have such a nice vehicle."
I believe he was about 50 and he appeared to be in good shape. Oh, yes. Young and able-bodied: Perfect fodder for LI C-D venom. How dare this man be retired?
Then I got the story. Nerve damage in the arm. From a bullet.
Yeah. No. I liken LEOs to veterans. Anyone who puts themselves in harm's way for the sake of protecting complete strangers in the cause of the greater good can drive whatever car they dang well please as part of a retirement funded by the people they serve.
That is my opinion, that is what I value, that is what I feel is fair, and nothing is going to change it.
Oh, and by the way, most LEOs I know do have at least some college, if not a full four-year degree. I don't know about Long Island specifically, but there are departments that require at least an Associate's, if not a Bachelor's. I know a few who went beyond that--they went to law school at night and got JDs, too. So much for LEOs being uneducated.
I have to agree with you. It goes back to the notion--which I posited so long ago on these boards that you'd have to search the threads because it's not even in my history anymore--is that when determining what other people's jobs are worth, it's all subjective and varies according to one's own value system. There are plenty of professions out there that I think are overrated and overpaid. Law enforcement and teaching are not among them.
Good point about the accountant, too. When people get up there and criticize how those in other lines of work do their jobs, I usually say the same thing, only with surgeons: Would you tell a surgeon how to remove your spleen? No? Okay, then don't tell another highly trained and specialized professional how to his or her job, either--especially if your life depends on how that person performs.
Last week I met a retired cop at my mechanic's. The fellow drove up in a Lexus SUV and I thought, "Oh, the people on C-D would LOVE this, boy howdy. The air would be positively saturated with value judgments on whether this fellow should have such a nice vehicle."
I believe he was about 50 and he appeared to be in good shape. Oh, yes. Young and able-bodied: Perfect fodder for LI C-D venom. How dare this man be retired?
Then I got the story. Nerve damage in the arm. From a bullet.
Yeah. No. I liken LEOs to veterans. Anyone who puts themselves in harm's way for the sake of protecting complete strangers in the cause of the greater good can drive whatever car they dang well please as part of a retirement funded by the people they serve.
That is my opinion, that is what I value, that is what I feel is fair, and nothing is going to change it.
Oh, and by the way, most LEOs I know do have at least some college, if not a full four-year degree. I don't know about Long Island specifically, but there are departments that require at least an Associate's, if not a Bachelor's. I know a few who went beyond that--they went to law school at night and got JDs, too. So much for LEOs being uneducated.
Surgeon's don't get paid by taxpayers based on contracts that had no say in...their salaries are determined by demand for the highly developed and difficult to master skills which require extensive education that the average person cannot complete.
As much as cops here want you to think they are supermen..they are not.
The rest of your post is emotional and has little basis in facts. The vast, vast, vast majority of SCPD and NCPD driving Lexus' do not have bullets in their arms, yet for all intents and purposes their career is far more lucrative than the average Physicians. If that doesn't spell out the absurdity of it for you, you simply don't want to hear it.
I apologize to everyone who is offended by the fact that I could not post all day today, I do have other obligations to tend to.
That said, my original point still stands. I cannot believe the PBA has the audacity to point to the teachers when their members' compensation is so ridiculous.
However, I will also say that my criticism of the PBA is in no way reflective of how I feel about the professionalism and effectiveness of the rank and file in the NCPD. The department is a stellar department and I am proud that they patrol my streets. I have family in the police department and realize the bravery required to be a police officer and be in bad situations for a living. That said, I do feel we can pay these same officers a bit less and they will still make a very good living and we'd still have a very high caliber applicant.
Do you have a link, couldn't find anything other than an ad on the PBA site indicating a breakdown of the taxes in a pie chart. Didn't see anything critical of the teachers.
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