Goodbye, MTA Long Island Bus (New York, Hempstead: fit in, property taxes, live in)

[qjbusmaster]

Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but

Ah you wanna dash the "disability retirement and play golf all day" dreams of the LIRR ushers? How mean!

In all seriousness, I agree with you. You should make a video about this subject and send it to the news media.

Actually a flat rate will increase operating costs it would be wise to cut internal costs first and if significant enough then a fare reduction can take place. I have a LI bus improvement proposal if you wanna see it I can email it to u or a news outlet. I am also working on improving Suffolk transit any ideas on realigning their routes would be appreciated. I do know that highway service via sunrise and LIE is warrented and a regional system with zone fares should be looked into. So you pay by distance but still u pay a reasonable fare. I started a thread about suffolk transit plz send replies.

[DarkWolf]

Originally Posted by Pequaman

Because drivers pay for roads through gasoline taxes

That used to be the case , but not so much anymore. Why do you think Fuel Taxes and Tolls are higher in Europe and Asia , they actually pay the true cost of the roads. Some states in the Great Plains can't afford to expand...or maintain there systems.

[Pequaman]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

That used to be the case , but not so much anymore. Why do you think Fuel Taxes and Tolls are higher in Europe and Asia , they actually pay the true cost of the roads. Some states in the Great Plains can't afford to expand...or maintain there systems.

The county has to be raking it in with these high gas prices. I bet at $4.25 they cover the county road costs. Did Nassau ever cap it at $3.00/gallon?

[Interlude]

Originally Posted by Pequaman

Because drivers pay for roads through gasoline taxes

No, they don't. In case there aren't enough pretty pictures in there for you, here's a summary

Federal gasoline taxes were originally intended for debt relief, not roads.
• Over the last 63 years, highways, roads and streets have received more than $600 billion in subsidies in excess of the amount raised through gasoline taxes.
• The amount of money a particular driver pays in gasoline taxes bears little relationship to his or her use of roads funded by gas taxes. Drivers pay gasoline taxes for the miles they drive on local streets and roads, even though those proceeds are typically used to pay for state and federal highways.

[sean sean sean sean]

So what exactly is gonna happen to LI Bus in the near future now? I've been kinda busy and haven't been following this whole thing too closely, but I do remember reading that the state kicked in enough money to cover the LIB budget until 2012. Will it continue to be run by the MTA until January and then the privatization takes place? Are all the current routes safe through the end of this year?

Like I said, I'm not up on the more recent details but I'm HIGHLY skeptical of there being any budget savings for the county through privatization that won't result from cutting service or raising fares, which would have been done under the MTA anyway so long as Mangano wasn't going to put any more money in the pot.

Obviously the theory here is that LI Bus costs "too much" (in Nassau County's opinion, at least) because it's directly tied to the MTA's unionized salary/benefit costs. Having a private/non-unionized company come in and take over should make a considerable dent in payroll expenditures. That's absolutely true, I don't disagree with the logic there.

The problem I see is that the biggest single source of funding for LIB is state aid, which (AFAIK) entirely vanishes once LIB becomes a privately run entity. According to the National Transportation Database's* LI Bus accounting data for 2009 (most recent year available) state and federal aid makes up 48% of operating costs and federal aid the entire 100% of "Capital Funds" (believe this is infrastructure improvements, vehicles, advertising, etc.)

*=Wish there was a website like this for every municipal function on LI...

How much less are they going to have to pay people to so much as break even with what the costs originally were once we go private? From what I remember, Nassau County's own feasibility study published sometime last year found that privatization was slightly more expensive than operating under the current system. What's changed since then?

I guess I could be missing something in the details, but from where I'm sitting right now it seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face... don't see how any of this is going to save one cent of money that couldn't have been saved sticking with the MTA - and FWIW, I don't think the MTA really did such an awful job under the "MTA Regional Bus" plan from a logistical standpoint. Seems like they kept maintenance costs low and consolidated a lot of functions, it's just those damn salaries and benefits that their (or our, Nassau County's) administration can't legally do anything about.

So until I see some evidence of how the savings will actually play out (big prediction: there will be no savings) or state laws protecting union contracts are magically changed, I'm gonna call this another stupid bait & switch that will become an "I saved Nassau taxpayers blahblahblah fake $$ on LI Bus operating expenses" soundbyte next election cycle.

[I_Love_LI_but]

^^^
I agree seanx4. The CEs (Mangano and Suozzi before him) do not value LI Bus and did not want to pay their fair share.

What is supposed to happen is on 1/1/12 the NEW privatized company will take over from both the MTA and Long Island Bus. Meanwhile, I am sure the MTA will still continue to extract the payroll tax from Nassau County's businesses.

It is odd how Mangano said months ago (January or February) that he would be announcing which private company he chose to run it out of 3 who sent proposals, but he keeps pushing back the announcement date. I have also not been able to find the names of who these 3 companies are. Something feels fishy to me, but I have to reserve judgment on the fishy stuff until they finally announce the "winner" and we can evaluate them as a viable replacement (or not) for MTA and LI Bus.

I think the LITA idea (LI get away from the MTA altogether and form its own agency, including the LIRR and use RFID to collect fares rather than the LIRR "ushers") deserves some serious consideration if it can be put in front of the right people.

[Pequaman]

Originally Posted by sean sean sean sean

So what exactly is gonna happen to LI Bus in the near future now? I've been kinda busy and haven't been following this whole thing too closely, but I do remember reading that the state kicked in enough money to cover the LIB budget until 2012. Will it continue to be run by the MTA until January and then the privatization takes place? Are all the current routes safe through the end of this year?

Like I said, I'm not up on the more recent details but I'm HIGHLY skeptical of there being any budget savings for the county through privatization that won't result from cutting service or raising fares, which would have been done under the MTA anyway so long as Mangano wasn't going to put any more money in the pot.

Obviously the theory here is that LI Bus costs "too much" (in Nassau County's opinion, at least) because it's directly tied to the MTA's unionized salary/benefit costs. Having a private/non-unionized company come in and take over should make a considerable dent in payroll expenditures. That's absolutely true, I don't disagree with the logic there.

The problem I see is that the biggest single source of funding for LIB is state aid, which (AFAIK) entirely vanishes once LIB becomes a privately run entity. According to the National Transportation Database's* LI Bus accounting data for 2009 (most recent year available) state and federal aid makes up 48% of operating costs and federal aid the entire 100% of "Capital Funds" (believe this is infrastructure improvements, vehicles, advertising, etc.)

*=Wish there was a website like this for every municipal function on LI...

How much less are they going to have to pay people to so much as break even with what the costs originally were once we go private? From what I remember, Nassau County's own feasibility study published sometime last year found that privatization was slightly more expensive than operating under the current system. What's changed since then?

I guess I could be missing something in the details, but from where I'm sitting right now it seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face... don't see how any of this is going to save one cent of money that couldn't have been saved sticking with the MTA - and FWIW, I don't think the MTA really did such an awful job under the "MTA Regional Bus" plan from a logistical standpoint. Seems like they kept maintenance costs low and consolidated a lot of functions, it's just those damn salaries and benefits that their (or our, Nassau County's) administration can't legally do anything about.

So until I see some evidence of how the savings will actually play out (big prediction: there will be no savings) or state laws protecting union contracts are magically changed, I'm gonna call this another stupid bait & switch that will become an "I saved Nassau taxpayers blahblahblah fake $$ on LI Bus operating expenses" soundbyte next election cycle.

Some good questions here. We don't have all the details yet, but I think they (Nassau) can run it at close to break even if the NYS subsidy is included. Why would NY pull the subsidy?
I think when you ask what's changed, it's the MTA wants $35 Million from the county now, from $10M last year. If Suffolk can run it at $24M being much larger in area with lower ridership & lower pop density, we could do it a lot cheaper than that. probably close to break even. Does Suffolk receive a subsidy from NYS to aid in Suffolk Transit? Anyone know? I would hope they keep it considering the new MTA payroll tax is costing us over $100M a year in Nassau.

Also, another thing to look at is what checkmatechamp posted earlier in the thread, the average LI Bus fare is only $1.37 cost to riders because of the free transfers and MTA economies of scale advantage.

Originally Posted by checkmatechamp13

The average fare paid in Long Island is $1.37 per passenger. See here: http://mta.info/mta/news/hearings/pdf/bluebook_libus.pdf (broken link)

Students pay $2, and everybody else pays $2.25 (I don't know about seniors). The reason why the number is so low is because a lot of people get free transfers from other lines, and a lot of them use an Unlimited MetroCard or UniTicket.

Also, I'm not completely sure how these "Public Authorities" work. I thought they were for the public good. This is a little OT, but Cuomo orders an audit of LIPA rates and all of a sudden they drop a bombshell and LIPA wants to go Private!... wtf is that about.

http://mobile.newsday.com/inf/infomo...2844386&part=2

[qjbusmaster]

Originally Posted by Pequaman

Some good questions here. We don't have all the details yet, but I think they (Nassau) can run it at close to break even if the NYS subsidy is included. Why would NY pull the subsidy?
I think when you ask what's changed, it's the MTA wants $35 Million from the county now, from $10M last year. If Suffolk can run it at $24M being much larger in area with lower ridership & lower pop density, we could do it a lot cheaper than that. probably close to break even. Does Suffolk receive a subsidy from NYS to aid in Suffolk Transit? Anyone know? I would hope they keep it considering the new MTA payroll tax is costing us over $100M a year in Nassau.

Also, another thing to look at is what checkmatechamp posted earlier in the thread, the average LI Bus fare is only $1.37 cost to riders because of the free transfers and MTA economies of scale advantage.




Also, I'm not completely sure how these "Public Authorities" work. I thought they were for the public good. This is a little OT, but Cuomo orders an audit of LIPA rates and all of a sudden they drop a bombshell and LIPA wants to go Private!... wtf is that about.

Top Stories Item

Well the 3 bidders are veiola, First transit and MV transportation. I would prefer veola or first as I used them before in other regions but I dont believe it can be done for less cafuse u have to facytor in the service levels will they decrease with all night service being eliminated????? If so then ridership WILL PLUMMET!!! AS IF PPL CAN RELY ON LIB THEY STOP USING IT SIMPLE!!!

[Trojan505]

I can't help but feel a little disturbed at the hypocrisy of some people, especially right-leaning "fiscal conservatives" who have no problem with public money being used to help the rich, but completely freak out if a dime of that money is used to help regular, middle-income or lower-income people.

Yes, LI Bus is subsidized with public money. That's the point. That's why it's called PUBLIC transportation. It's a PUBLIC service for people who either cannot drive, cannot afford to drive or choose to use the bus to get to the LIRR or a subway (that's me). My right-leaning friends will scream until they're blue in the face that the taxpayers shouldn't have to subsidize a bus that they don't use.

Well, here's the thing; we're taxpayers too. We work and pay taxes just like you do. And some of our tax dollars are used to subsidize the automobile companies and oil companies that you depend on for your priviate automobilies. So if limited, fiscally-responsible government is what you so strongly believe in, let's get rid of these subsidizes as well and make people pay $20 a gallon for gas and the real cost of their car.

After all, I'm a taxpayer and I don't want to fund something I don't use either!

[I_Love_LI_but]

Originally Posted by Trojan505

I can't help but feel a little disturbed at the hypocrisy of some people, especially right-leaning "fiscal conservatives" who have no problem with public money being used to help the rich, but completely freak out if a dime of that money is used to help regular, middle-income or lower-income people.

Yes, LI Bus is subsidized with public money. That's the point. That's why it's called PUBLIC transportation. It's a PUBLIC service for people who either cannot drive, cannot afford to drive or choose to use the bus to get to the LIRR or a subway (that's me). My right-leaning friends will scream until they're blue in the face that the taxpayers shouldn't have to subsidize a bus that they don't use.

Well, here's the thing; we're taxpayers too. We work and pay taxes just like you do. And some of our tax dollars are used to subsidize the automobile companies and oil companies that you depend on for your priviate automobilies. So if limited, fiscally-responsible government is what you so strongly believe in, let's get rid of these subsidizes as well and make people pay $20 a gallon for gas and the real cost of their car.

After all, I'm a taxpayer and I don't want to fund something I don't use either!

Welcome to C-D! You hqve a point. What would it cost to run private automobiles if we weren't subsidizing auto and oil companies, conservatives out there?