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not sure how anyone can defend a system that results in the rubber rooms found in NYC...but I guess some people have the union mindset drilled into their head to the point that all common sense escapes them.
Why are PUBLIC workers not entitled to labor protections? Whose interest do you think it serves to limit workers' rights? What do you think will happen if PUBLIC workers no longer have the right to bargain? What do you think will happen to the quality of public services?
The public unions in Nassau County have had a quid-pro-quo relationship with politicians for decades and are there to just increase their salary and benefits. I don't have issue paying a decent wage but in many cases (not all) they have gone well beyond the median wages and benefits for the county . Unions were originally created for worker protection and a decent wage, we are far beyond that when you have a waiting list of 9000 for police jobs.
By the way a no layoff clause should never ever be part of any union contract, that is a mananagement and taxpayer decsion.
I disagree with the union position but this administration has some other things to do such as eliminating people like Foskey as a second parks commissioner before they start laying off people that can ill afford it.
... and all I can say to American trade unions is:
"What have you done for us lately?" (as per Janet Jackson's old song)
The amount of money in the owners' bank account has nothing to do with the wages he is willing to pay to his employees. That is determined by the balance of power in the workplace, which in turn is determined by the amount of surplus labour in the market and restrictions on the organisation of labour enforced by private or government coercion. The more coercion is allowed, the more exploited the working class will be. Unions work to help shift that balance back toward the workers.
• Unions raise wages of unionized workers by roughly 20% and raise compensation, including both wages and benefits, by about 28%.
• Unions reduce wage inequality because they raise wages more for low- and middle-wage workers than for higher-wage workers, more for blue-collar than for white-collar workers, and more for workers who do not have a college degree.
• Strong unions set a pay standard that nonunion employers follow. For example, a high school graduate whose workplace is not unionized but whose industry is 25% unionized is paid 5% more than similar workers in less unionized industries.
• The impact of unions on total nonunion wages is almost as large as the impact on total union wages.
So the mere presence of Union labor in a market actually promotes better pay for everyone.
Unions also make the workplace safer (again, the EIP briefing):
Quote:
In two studies of OSHA and unions in the manufacturing and construction industries (1991a and 1991b), Weil found unions greatly improve OSHA enforcement. In the manufacturing industry, for example, the probability that OSHA inspections would be initiated by worker complaints was as much as 45% higher in unionized workplaces than in nonunion ones. Unionized establishments were also as much as 15% more likely to be the focus of programmed or targeted inspections in the manufacturing industry. In addition, Weil found that in unionized settings workers were much more likely to exercise their "walkaround" rights (accompanying an OSHA inspector to point out potential violations), inspections lasted longer, and penalties for noncompliance were greater. In the construction industry, Weil estimated that unions raise the probability of OSHA inspections by 10%.
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Thanks a lot, counterweight. You helped hasten offshore outsourcing and shipping factories overseas along tremendously. You caused the entire automobile industry of America to go broke and almost disappear entirely and completely if not for the taxpayers bailing them out.
Yes, a company moving a job from Ohio, where a Union worker would make $17 an hour, to Georgia, where a non-union worker would make $10 an hour could be explained as "cutting labor costs", but that Georgia worker is still going to want a 40 hour work week, benefits, vacation, etc. Moving jobs from Ohio to Asia or South America is not "cutting labor costs" it is maximizing profit by exploiting developing societies. Unions did not force companies to move jobs overseas because they demanded better pay and benefits. Companies did so because they saw the potential for raw, naked profit.
The auto industry example is particularly laughable. GM et al. weren't hurt by unions, they were hurt by management completely falling asleep as the wheel (har, har), failing to see changes in the auto industry and developing cars that the public actually wanted to buy.
$85.00 an hour for a GM production line worker with a GED living in a cheap area in the midwest?
You see no problem with that? Sky's the limit, right? He can pay higher union dues that way and more politicians can be bought. I know it's hard for you to believe, but sometimes it gets to the point where the company is taken advantage of by the unions, just like the unions take advantage of the taxpayers. OR was there a different reason the automakers needed a bailout besides the union-strongarmed largesse?
How about those golden parachutes and sky-high compensation and bonuses for overpaid executives? I bet they got A LOT more than $85/hour. And when they went to Washington to ask for handouts, they flew on private luxury jets to do so....but I'm sure rewarding their own incompetence had nothing to do with their company's failure.
How about those poorly designed and cheaply made cars - all for the sake of higher profits? Think that had anything to do with the company's failure? (The last Ford I owned was truly THE LAST Ford I will ever own!)
How about not being forward-thinking enough to realize that Americans don't want gas guzzlers because we can't afford to fill them up at the pumps. Let me guess...You're going to blame the union assembly line workers for the executives' poor decision-making and bad business model too.
not sure how anyone can defend a system that results in the rubber rooms found in NYC...but I guess some people have the union mindset drilled into their head to the point that all common sense escapes them.
Sad...
I'm not defending anything. I'm just questioning what your source is. Just keep in mind that many people who disseminate information have agendas - agendas that they might not readily reveal to you.
How about those golden parachutes and sky-high compensation and bonuses for overpaid executives? I bet they got A LOT more than $85/hour. And when they went to Washington to ask for handouts, they flew on private luxury jets to do so....but I'm sure rewarding their own incompetence had nothing to do with their company's failure.
How about those poorly designed and cheaply made cars - all for the sake of higher profits? Think that had anything to do with the company's failure? (The last Ford I owned was truly THE LAST Ford I will ever own!)
How about not being forward-thinking enough to realize that Americans don't want gas guzzlers because we can't afford to fill them up at the pumps. Let me guess...You're going to blame the union assembly line workers for the executives' poor decision-making and bad business model too.
The employees from the top (obscenely compensated CEO) to the bottom (assembly line workers making the equivalent of an upper class employee wage for the area they live in) all had something to do with it.
I don't think American cars are that poorly designed. Cheaply made? I don't call paying the assembly line labor $85 an hour "cheap." Foreign companies have had their share of clunkers! They are certainly not perfect either.
And where did YOU get the idea that Americans don't want huge gas guzzlers? Drive around and LOOK AT what other people are driving. Why am I always behind a sea of SUVs that I can't see around or over while driving on the highway? Why am I always parked in between two behemoths in any parking lot where I have to PRAY that when I pull out (since I can't see anything around me at all) no speeding nut hits me?
And we didn't even get into a HUGE REASON that American car makers had trouble -- the 1950s style "employer pays all" pensions and benefit costs of the unionized workers.
The amount of money in the owners' bank account has nothing to do with the wages he is willing to pay to his employees. That is determined by the balance of power in the workplace, which in turn is determined by the amount of surplus labour in the market and restrictions on the organisation of labour enforced by private or government coercion. The more coercion is allowed, the more exploited the working class will be. Unions work to help shift that balance back toward the workers.
Love the spelling of "your" paragraph above. Did you suddenly turn British, Australian, etc., or did you just plagiarize someone who writes the Queen's English?
If you want to debate on here, can you at least write your own words or I am not going to bother answering you (actually what I am doing is I'm answering whoever really wrote that paragraph who is totally unaware their words were lifted).
All I have to say is, the amount of surplus "labour" in the market should be GOOD ENOUGH to determine the balance of power in the workplace when it comes to services PAID FOR BY THE TAXPAYERS. The public sector unions have shown themselves to be completely MERCILESS gluttons time and time again when feasting at the taxpayer trough.
But, given that you have responded with the internet forum equivalent of "holy crap look behind you!" instead of actually addressing anything, I'll just accept victory and move on to another thread. Changing your mind on this is apparently as easy as selling Yankees merch in Faneuil Hall.
But, given that you have responded with the internet forum equivalent of "holy crap look behind you!" instead of actually addressing anything, I'll just accept victory and move on to another thread. Changing your mind on this is apparently as easy as selling Yankees merch in Faneuil Hall.
Victory, schmictory! You know what they say about "winning" arguments on the internet ...
I said:
Quote:
The amount of surplus "labour" in the market should be GOOD ENOUGH to determine the balance of power in the workplace when it comes to services PAID FOR BY THE TAXPAYERS. The public sector unions have shown themselves to be completely MERCILESS gluttons time and time again when feasting at the taxpayer trough.
And that is what I believe. The UNIONS ruined their own reputations. Past behavior is the most reliable indicator of future behavior. (Or should I have spelled that "behaviour?")
And that is what I believe. The UNIONS ruined their own reputations. Past behavior is the most reliable indicator of future behavior. (Or should I have spelled that "behaviour?")
So it doesn't matter whether unions are a positive force for the working class (and society in general), because they've lost in the court of [uneducated] public opinion, they should be dismantled? I mean you've done nothing here but claim unions are sparking shifting jobs to Indonesia and screwing over the US car industry. Why should I or anyone else believe anything else you have to say? It seems to amount to declaring that the Earth is flat because it looks flat from your window, and it looks flat from your neighbour's (ahm, neighbor's) window.
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