Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > Long Island
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-07-2011, 12:43 PM
 
1,303 posts, read 1,819,483 times
Reputation: 2486

Advertisements

Many people abuse the system on the LIRR. Do you know how often people hide in the bathrooms, or pull other disappearing Houdini acts in order to avoid paying? A system that collects fares at a videotaped secure turnstile would seem more secure to me, not less. Plus, the increased headcount and pension costs that go along with it to staff our current system, only leads to higher ticket prices which incentivize people to cheat even more.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-07-2011, 12:51 PM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
12,380 posts, read 26,905,355 times
Reputation: 4583
Quote:
Originally Posted by ny789987 View Post
Many people abuse the system on the LIRR. Do you know how often people hide in the bathrooms, or pull other disappearing Houdini acts in order to avoid paying? A system that collects fares at a videotaped secure turnstile would seem more secure to me, not less. Plus, the increased headcount and pension costs that go along with it to staff our current system, only leads to higher ticket prices which incentivize people to cheat even more.
Thats a pretty low occurrence , Turnstiles don't guarantee 100% fool proof system , its about the same for as having conductors and once again you would have retrofit every station which is very expensive. Could be up to 600 million , and would be the same as having conductors. Just now you wouldn't be protected on the train....if trouble comes up.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-07-2011, 12:55 PM
 
1,303 posts, read 1,819,483 times
Reputation: 2486
600 million cost upfront, but how much would that save in the long run? Would be interesting to compare the 600 million upfront cost with the long term savings of reduced payroll and pension outlays over a 30 year period.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-07-2011, 12:56 PM
 
1,963 posts, read 4,252,825 times
Reputation: 1143
Quote:
Originally Posted by ny789987 View Post
Many people abuse the system on the LIRR. Do you know how often people hide in the bathrooms, or pull other disappearing Houdini acts in order to avoid paying? A system that collects fares at a videotaped secure turnstile would seem more secure to me, not less. Plus, the increased headcount and pension costs that go along with it to staff our current system, only leads to higher ticket prices which incentivize people to cheat even more.
Do you ride the train everyday? This happens way less than you might think. Even if there was a person hiding in every bathroom of a train you are talking about 8 people/train.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-07-2011, 12:57 PM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
12,380 posts, read 26,905,355 times
Reputation: 4583
New York / Connecticut

Metro North

Projects to be completed by 2020

Electrification of the Hudson line to Poughkeepsie
Replacement of White Plains station
re-electrification of the Danbury line
Croton / New Haven shop upgrades
New Haven Union station canopy over tracks
Spuyten Duyvil Bridge replacement
System wide PTC ingratiation
M8 Car Purchase
M8 Bar / Cafe Car replacement
More Sidings / Signal upgrades added to the Waterbury / Danbury line
Replacement of the New Haven line's wires , bridges and stations
Double Decker Cars for Hudson / Harlem line
Overhaul of Grand Central Terminal platform areas
Downtown Norwalk station
Georgetown Station
West Haven Station
Fairfield Metro Center
East Stamford
New Milford Danbury line extension
Hoboken Terminal Overhaul
Hudson / New Haven line Extension to Penn station


Large Scale Rail Projects

Project : New Haven line extension to Penn Station
Number of lines : 1
Stations : 3
Projected Ridership : 60,000


Project : Hudson line extension to Penn Station
Number of lines : 1
Stations : 3
Projected Ridership : 30,000


Project : West Shore line
Number of lines : 1
Stations : 23
Projected Ridership : 60,000


Project : Restoration of the Main line
Number of lines : 1
Stations : 6
Projected Ridership : 8,000


Project : Restoration of the Beacon line
Number of lines : 1
Stations : 5
Projected Ridership : 6,000


Project : Restoration of the Maybrook line
Number of lines : 1
Stations : 4
Projected Ridership : 4,000


Project : I 287 Light Rail Corridor
Number of lines : 2
Stations : 14
Projected Ridership : 90,000


Project : Extension of the Port Jervis line to Stewart Airport
Number of lines : 1
Stations : 2
Projected Ridership : 2,000


Current System

Line : Pascack Valley line
Length : 30 mi
Stations : 18
Ridership : 6,500 > Projected 2020 Ridership : 11,000


Line : Port Jervis line
Length : 95 mi
Stations : 26
Ridership : 7,000 > Projected 2020 Ridership : 9,000


Line : New Haven line
Length : 74 mi
Stations : 30
Ridership : 112,000 > Projected 2020 Ridership : 140,000


Line : New Canaan branch
Length : 8 mi
Stations : 5
Ridership : 4,000 > Projected 2020 Ridership : 6,000


Line : Danbury Branch
Length : 24 mi
Stations : 8
Ridership : 1,200 > Projected 2020 Ridership : 7,000


Line : Waterbury Branch
Length : 29
Stations : 7
Ridership : 1,500 > Projected 2020 Ridership : 8,000

Line : Hudson line
Length : 74 mi
Stations : 29
Ridership : 47,000 > Projected 2020 Ridership : 73,000


Line : Harlem line
Length : 82 mi
Stations : 38
Ridership : 43,000 > Projected 2020 Ridership : 70,000


Total 2020 Rail Ridership with all the projects completed : 390,000

Vs.

New York

Long Island Railroad

Projects to be completed by 2020

Helena Williams resignation or Firing
Signal Upgrades
Track Replacement
Switch Upgrades
Electrification of Central Branch
Electrification of the Port Jefferson Branch
Electrification of the Montauk Branch
Third Tracking of the Main line
East Side Access to Grand Central Terminal
Double Tracking of parts of the Ronkonkoma line
M9 Rail car
Equal Outbound / Inbound Services



Large Scale Railway Projects

Project : Restoration of the Full Hempstead line
Number of lines : 1
Stations : 4
Projected Ridership : 30,000


Project : Restoration of the Wading River Branch
Number of lines : 1
Stations : 3
Projected Ridership : 12,000


Project : Restoration of the Sunset Park line
Number of lines : 1
Stations : 11
Projected Ridership : 38,000


Project : LIRR Core line
Number of lines : 1
Stations : 17
Projected Ridership : 110,000


Project : LIRR East Side Access
Number of lines : 11
Stations : 1
Projected Ridership : 120,000


Current system...

LIRR
Location : Long Island and Manhattan , Queens and Brooklyn
Daily Ridership : 341,000 (Projected 2020 Daily Ridership : 470,000+)
System size : 700+ mi
Stations : 124
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-07-2011, 12:58 PM
 
1,303 posts, read 1,819,483 times
Reputation: 2486
Happens a lot more than you think, especially going in the east bound direction. How many people intending to get off in Central Islip or Ronkonkoma buy a ticket to Hicksville? An automated system would recoup these lost costs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-07-2011, 12:59 PM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
12,380 posts, read 26,905,355 times
Reputation: 4583
Quote:
Originally Posted by ny789987 View Post
600 million cost upfront, but how much would that save in the long run? Would be interesting to compare the 600 million upfront cost with the long term savings of reduced payroll and pension outlays over a 30 year period.
Its still 600 million that the Railroad would lose and could use for projects like 3 tracking the Main line , New Trains and Overhauled stations...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-07-2011, 01:00 PM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
12,380 posts, read 26,905,355 times
Reputation: 4583
Quote:
Originally Posted by ny789987 View Post
Happens a lot more than you think, especially going in the east bound direction. How many people intending to get off in Central Islip or Ronkonkoma buy a ticket to Hicksville? An automated system would recoup these lost costs.
How many times a week you ride the train? Describe the scenery out the window so we know your telling the truth....and look on google does not tell the full story....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-07-2011, 01:05 PM
 
1,303 posts, read 1,819,483 times
Reputation: 2486
Yeah, would cost a lot in the short term, but would really pay off in the long term. What's your point, that there won't be a need for project upgrades/outlays in the future? I think the MTA and the railroad would be better off not taking a myopic, short-term view of things. They totally have their heads in the sand regarding the impending pension bubble expansion.

I don't ride the train often, but commonsense tells me that this fare avoidance tactic would be something fairly easy to pull off. Just refuting your assertion that an automated fare collection system would be less foolproof than a human one.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-07-2011, 01:17 PM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
12,380 posts, read 26,905,355 times
Reputation: 4583
Quote:
Originally Posted by ny789987 View Post
Yeah, would cost a lot in the short term, but would really pay off in the long term. What's your point, that there won't be a need for project upgrades/outlays in the future? I think the MTA and the railroad would be better off not taking a myopic, short-term view of things. They totally have their heads in the sand regarding the impending pension bubble expansion.

I don't ride the train often, but commonsense tells me that this fare avoidance tactic would be something fairly easy to pull off. Just refuting your assertion that an automated fare collection system would be less foolproof than a human one.
Ah ha , iknew it. Track , System , and train upgrades would save the LIRR more in the long run then putting in turnstiles....which would cost $$ to maintain , and they would be at every station. You would have to retrofit every station , does the typical LIRR station below look like it can easily and cheaply be modified for Turnstiles? I kno that LIRR , MNRR and NJT are trying to install them at Turnstiles....at Urban Stations.



Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:



Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > Long Island

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top