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As long as Gianna from Deer Park isn't dating Tyrone from Wyandanch, things are cool......What?
BTW-I'm just stating what some might think, but not my opinion personally. Maybe I should have used Massapequa instead. Deer Park is too diverse and integrated by LI standards. So, it might not be surprising to see couples like that in Deer Park.
I'm not saying that White Flight was the SOLE REASON why LI was developed; obviously there was WW2, etc, but you can't deny that integration was at least a notable contributing factor.
"Using the separate politica l institutions of the newly forming suburban communities, whites were able to escape the rising tide of integration and establish their own schools, libraries, police, and parks."
Reference: White Flight (http://eh.net/Clio/Publications/flight.shtml - broken link)
To add on to that:
Evidence of this is due to the fact of many developers not selling plots to minority groups; yes, you can try to debate and justify it but the main point is that race had to be on the minds of people if housing discrimination on this huge of a scale was such a common practice.
You presented a paper on 'White Flight' in general which mentions a community on LI but is not solely about LI. Within the paper I did find the following:
Quote:
However, from this evidence alone one cannot necessarily conclude that the black/white - city/suburb dichotomy arose purely on racial grounds. Cities in the United States tend to follow a pattern of neighborhood succession in which wealthy residents abandon smaller, older units of hous ing in favor of larger, newly constructed units. As the existing housing stock in older neighborhoods depreciates with age, it becomes occupied by lower-income households; a neighborhood transformation takes place in which older, central neighb orhoods decline while new affluent communities form on the urban fringes. Since blacks historically have had lower incomes than whites, as shown in Figure 1, the supposed post-war "white flight" could be attributed to simple neighborhood succession. White households, with their higher incomes, were able to locate in the new, more expensive housing in these new neighborhoods, while nonwhites, with lower incomes, increasingly occupied the older, less desirable areas near urban centers. These new neighbor hoods simply happened to lie outside the political boundaries of the large central city, and the normal pattern of neighborhood succession was given a new name - suburbanization.
There is evidence that Levitt prevented minorities from purchasing his homes. The paper you've linked to also notes that the lower income of the minorities at that period in time would have prevented them from buyng the homes.
We are aware that there was red-lining which certainly helped segregation.
These two things did not help at all, however Long Island was settled LONG before any of this came about. We had slaves and indentured servants, free men, Indians, etc., with whom LIers interacted with on a daily basis. Some of these interactions have been preserved by such local artists as William Sidney Mount. In fact, descendants of those in his paintings still call the area home.
It is hard for an area which is over 80? 85? % white to be fully integrated without some form of social engineering. People in general tend to want to live amongst those they share some sort of commonality with -- race, ethnicity, religion, education, etc. How many times will we read a thread which is "Looking for a Jewish area" "Area with Lots of Italians" -- I can go on.
My area has a mix of individuals of many ethnicities, races and religions. Financially, we're a mixed bag but lean more towards white collar people who living on the north side of the railroad tracks while the blue collar people tend to live more on the south side. Would you consider this fiscal or racial segregation -- when the white mechanic lives on one side and the African American surgeon lives on the affluent side?
Some areas on LI will always be predominantly one race, religion, income level, etc. Others won't. Give it time. I see more interactial relationships now than I did 25 years ago, many more interacial children. When they come of age, they will have a different set of values as to the type of community they want to live in.
Don't forget the blocking of Black veterans into suburban neighborhoods after WW2. That in turn helped to delay wealth for Black folks.
With that said, check out the book Up South(if I'm not mistaken), where it shows that Black people moved from the South to communities on Long Island in the 1920's. If the community had an industry or one close by, it most likely was or is more diverse. Gordon Heights actually was the antithesis of Levittown in terms who it attracted and was marketed racially.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 08-03-2011 at 03:53 PM..
I grew up in Garden City in the '70s and '80s and returned recently. I don't have a lot of close contacts here, other than family, so I don't see what goes on beneath the surface, but it certainly appears that things are a bit better than they used to be. I notice less overt racial hostility and more integration in public places.
Of course, many of our residential areas are still segregated, and we've got residents like the poster in this thread who supports "thinking your race is 'the best'," so we've still got work to do.
So, then, you'd prefer to think your race is the worst??
Don't forget the blocking of Black veterans into suburban neighborhoods after WW2. That in turn helped to delay wealth for Black folks.
With that said, check out the book Up South, where it shows that Black people moved from the South to communities on Long Island in the 1920's. If the community had an industry or one close by, it most likely was or is more diverse. Gordon Heights actually was the antithesis of Levittown in terms who it attracted and was marketed racially.
Levitt prohibited sale to African Americans. That was a limited area. Redlining was more damaging.
You presented a paper on 'White Flight' in general which mentions a community on LI but is not solely about LI. Within the paper I did find the following:
...
Some areas on LI will always be predominantly one race, religion, income level, etc. Others won't. Give it time. I see more interactial relationships now than I did 25 years ago, many more interacial children. When they come of age, they will have a different set of values as to the type of community they want to live in.
Very well said. I don't really see racism as being a problem here on the Island. I see more tension over poor v. rich than black v. white. Just as we are now seeing same sex families starting to form, it will not make much difference what race you are, but rather what your income is, etc.
Coincidentally, did anyone know that Robert Moses was known to be a huge racist? Ever notice how the Northern State, Southern State, Seaford-Oyster Bay and Meadowbrook Parkways have all these low lying overpasses that make it difficult (impossible) for large trucks or commercial busses to go on them? My husband told me that 1 major reason Moses designed it that way was to limit the number of Blacks/minorities from the city from going out to Jones Beach, the parks, etc since the city buses wouldn't be allowed on the parkways (back then, it was "a way to keep them black folk outta our towns"..)...Crazy theory huh??
You presented a paper on 'White Flight' in general which mentions a community on LI but is not solely about LI. Within the paper I did find the following:
There is evidence that Levitt prevented minorities from purchasing his homes. The paper you've linked to also notes that the lower income of the minorities at that period in time would have prevented them from buyng the homes.
We are aware that there was red-lining which certainly helped segregation.
These two things did not help at all, however Long Island was settled LONG before any of this came about. We had slaves and indentured servants, free men, Indians, etc., with whom LIers interacted with on a daily basis. Some of these interactions have been preserved by such local artists as William Sidney Mount. In fact, descendants of those in his paintings still call the area home.
It is hard for an area which is over 80? 85? % white to be fully integrated without some form of social engineering. People in general tend to want to live amongst those they share some sort of commonality with -- race, ethnicity, religion, education, etc. How many times will we read a thread which is "Looking for a Jewish area" "Area with Lots of Italians" -- I can go on.
My area has a mix of individuals of many ethnicities, races and religions. Financially, we're a mixed bag but lean more towards white collar people who living on the north side of the railroad tracks while the blue collar people tend to live more on the south side. Would you consider this fiscal or racial segregation -- when the white mechanic lives on one side and the African American surgeon lives on the affluent side?
Some areas on LI will always be predominantly one race, religion, income level, etc. Others won't. Give it time. I see more interactial relationships now than I did 25 years ago, many more interacial children. When they come of age, they will have a different set of values as to the type of community they want to live in.
Levitts homes were originally priced significantly under market value, so pretty much any working family could afford them back then.
I've lived on Long Island all my life, I live in Valley Stream which is pretty well mixed and my high school was also well mixed. People of every race say things about everyone else and the reason we aren't embroiled in a race war is because no one cares what anyone else has to say. Yes there is racism, as there is everywhere, but I know in my town no one cares enough to consider it a problem.
Unbelievably, when I was very young my Dad had to buy a summer home in Setauket in order to take his customers out on the boat because the Manhasset Bay Yacht Club was restricted and most of his customers were Jewish.
No one really could imagine that now, but even Jewish people were discriminated against in the 1950s here on Long Island.
__________________ ******************
People may not recall what you said to them, but they will always remember how you made them feel .
Last edited by nancy thereader; 08-03-2011 at 08:32 PM..
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