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Old 02-15-2010, 11:53 AM
 
416 posts, read 695,517 times
Reputation: 74

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Be fair now... The Taylor law also grants binding arbitration... And don't forget the rules about the municipalities ability to pay (crock of ****) and the pay to be commensurate to neighboring counties.
Moderator cut: off topic

Last edited by Keeper; 02-15-2010 at 05:01 PM.. Reason: bringing in the pcd

 
Old 02-15-2010, 11:59 AM
 
217 posts, read 253,373 times
Reputation: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by LongIslandCitizen View Post
In case some of you aren't familiar with the taylor law that this guy is crying about this is it.



The Public Employees Fair Employment Act (more commonly known as the Taylor Law) refers to Article 14 of the New York State Civil Service Law, which defines the rights and limitations of unions for public employees in New York.
New York State statute named for labor researcher George W. Taylor authorizing a governor-appointed State Public Employment Relations Board to resolve contract disputes for public employees while curtailing their right to strike
Very cute - highlight the section that appears to be a negative for the LI unions. I can tell you, if the LI cops and teachers were to strike, there'd be lines a mile long for these jobs even if the total compensation was cut 20%.
 
Old 02-15-2010, 12:00 PM
 
1,615 posts, read 3,569,699 times
Reputation: 1115
Quote:
Originally Posted by firefighter55 View Post
Government jobs were intended to pay less than the private sector but have job security and better benefits. Now, all 3 exist for the government jobs and the tax pagers cannot afford it. You are a biased public sector employee... At least ID yourself and be honest here.
I have said in past posts that I am a military veteran but that isn't important. I realize as an American that the backbone of our country rest on the shoulders of virtuous people such as education, law enforcement, and emergency personnel.

No one mandated that you should work in either the public or private sector and no one created rules that one paid more and the other provided better benefits. That is your responsibility to investigate when you apply for employment. You obviously chose the wrong field. America is a fantastic country filled with many opportunities. You don't like your occupation then go back to school, study hard, and better yourself. Quit pointing your fingers at others.

Who knows maybe you'll invent some kind of cool useless trinket and make half a billion dollars for it.
 
Old 02-15-2010, 12:14 PM
 
416 posts, read 695,517 times
Reputation: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by JosephPicarilloJr. View Post
Wow... I don't even know where to begin. The land of opportunities is does not mean this is the land of government opportunities you dimwit! lol The backbone of America is the private sector, which creates the good paying jobs, creates the wealth, and supports the government jobs that exist - not the other way around! What do you think this is communism here? Let's all work for the government! This is pure lunacy and I'd expect a little more intelligence from a vet.

I did not choose the wrong field and I love my job. I am, however, sick and tired of paying for a lavish lifestyle for the LI cops and teachers. When the average cop is pulling is almost 2 times the median HOUSEHOLD income of the county, something is seriously wrong. When a teacher, working 9-10 months out of the year makes 20% more that the median household income, there is a problem.

The best jobs out of college should not be civil servant jobs, our economy cannot sustain that. However, that's what LI is turning into... and everyone on the gravy train wants to keep the train moving.
While I agree with you 100%... this whole debate is pointless. I think most people would agree with you, but the minority is very vocal and very quick to demonize your side and pull out the scare tatics. We will hit a breaking point, and it will be interesting to see how these civil servants respond. I find one thing very amusing... The greed of the for profit sector is well documented, but the greed of the public sector is shown in this thread. It's sad that our teachers and cops care more about their gravy train then the municipality in which they live.
 
Old 02-15-2010, 12:20 PM
 
852 posts, read 2,011,229 times
Reputation: 325
Default Calm down

Quote:
Originally Posted by JosephPicarilloJr. View Post
Wow... I don't even know where to begin. The land of opportunities is does not mean this is the land of government opportunities you dimwit! lol The backbone of America is the private sector, which creates the good paying jobs, creates the wealth, and supports the government jobs that exist - not the other way around! What do you think this is communism here? Let's all work for the government! This is pure lunacy and I'd expect a little more intelligence from a vet.

I did not choose the wrong field and I love my job. I am, however, sick and tired of paying for a lavish lifestyle for the LI cops and teachers. When the average cop is pulling is almost 2 times the median HOUSEHOLD income of the county, something is seriously wrong. When a teacher, working 9-10 months out of the year makes 20% more that the median household income, there is a problem.

The best jobs out of college should not be civil servant jobs, our economy cannot sustain that. However, that's what LI is turning into... and everyone on the gravy train wants to keep the train moving.
The best jobs aren't police, firefighters, or teachers. Civil servants don't get rich working for the government. Government only makes millionaires out of people when they controlling shares in Halliburton or Blackwater.

So, if that is your concern then it is the status quo. Moreover, I don't think you mean to say that civil servants should be the worst paid, unless, of course, I'm wrong. Please correct me.

A country having civil servants doesn't make it communistic. You should brush up on the definition of that word. Moreover, left to their own devices many states wouldn't have state-run schools. As such, schooling would be exclusively for the haves, not the have-nots. And if you are concerned with the original design of this country - it is one of a meritocracy where the best ideas and people emerge through competition. That doesn't happen if one class controls all of the resources. As such, civil servants, such as teachers, cops and firefighters, ensure that everyone, at the very least, have a chance.

Unless we are just pretending to manage a meritocracy here, then we must pay civil servants competitively. Wall Street and law firms don't deserve all the brain power. You and I both know that the root of capitalism is productivity and compensation are intimately linked. Reducing salaries for civil servants to a minimum will only get you what you pay for.

I left Florida for NY because of the schools. I'm paying through the teeth to live here. Make the schools more like Florida's and I'll move to Boston or Chicago.
 
Old 02-15-2010, 12:24 PM
 
217 posts, read 253,373 times
Reputation: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadPool1998 View Post
The best jobs aren't police, firefighters, or teachers. Civil servants don't get rich working for the government. Government only makes millionaires out of people when they controlling shares in Halliburton or Blackwater.

So, if that is your concern then it is the status quo. Moreover, I don't think you mean to say that civil servants should be the worst paid, unless, of course, I'm wrong. Please correct me.

A country having civil servants doesn't make it communistic. You should brush up on the definition of that word. Moreover, left to their own devices many states wouldn't have state-run schools. As such, schooling would be exclusively for the haves, not the have-nots. And if you are concerned with the original design of this country - it is one of a meritocracy where the best ideas and people emerge through competition. That doesn't happen if one class controls all of the resources. As such, civil servants, such as teachers, cops and firefighters, ensure that everyone, at the very least, have a chance.

Unless we are just pretending to manage a meritocracy here, then we must pay civil servants competitively. Wall Street and law firms don't deserve all the brain power. You and I both know that the root of capitalism is productivity and compensation are intimately linked. Reducing salaries for civil servants to a minimum will only get you what you pay for.

I left Florida for NY because of the schools. I'm paying through the teeth to live here. Make the schools more like Florida's and I'll move to Boston or Chicago.
Re-read my post. Nowhere did I say that a government having civil service jobs is communism, nor did I state that teachers should be the worst paid.
 
Old 02-15-2010, 12:30 PM
 
852 posts, read 2,011,229 times
Reputation: 325
Default Flip Flopping

Quote:
Originally Posted by JosephPicarilloJr. View Post
Re-read my post. Nowhere did I say that a government having civil service jobs is communism, nor did I state that teachers should be the worst paid.
You are flipping and flopping from informal to formal argument standards.

You are making rhetorical points with questions like "The backbone of America is the private sector, which creates the good paying jobs, creates the wealth, and supports the government jobs that exist - not the other way around! What do you think this is communism here?"

To use your new standards, that person never said that the backbone was the public sector. Did he? Did he argue that the public sector creates jobs? Wealth? Did that person advocate for communism? What prompted you to say such things?

You didn't state that teachers should be the worst paid, but you have characterized a teacher's salary as "lavish." My neighbor has been a teacher in Suffolk for about 8 years, and she is still making less than $60,000 - lavish. So, if she is paid worse, she would qualify for food stamps (a family of 4 kids qualifies for foodstampts at $57000 in Suffolk).

How much should she get paid?
 
Old 02-15-2010, 12:34 PM
 
8,679 posts, read 15,222,428 times
Reputation: 15341
Quote:
Originally Posted by LongIslandCitizen View Post
I have said in past posts that I am a military veteran but that isn't important. I realize as an American that the backbone of our country rest on the shoulders of virtuous people such as education, law enforcement, and emergency personnel.

No one mandated that you should work in either the public or private sector and no one created rules that one paid more and the other provided better benefits. That is your responsibility to investigate when you apply for employment. You obviously chose the wrong field. America is a fantastic country filled with many opportunities. You don't like your occupation then go back to school, study hard, and better yourself. Quit pointing your fingers at others.

Who knows maybe you'll invent some kind of cool useless trinket and make half a billion dollars for it.
+1

+10 if I could.
 
Old 02-15-2010, 12:43 PM
 
8,679 posts, read 15,222,428 times
Reputation: 15341
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadPool1998 View Post
The best jobs aren't police, firefighters, or teachers. Civil servants don't get rich working for the government. Government only makes millionaires out of people when they controlling shares in Halliburton or Blackwater.
Another terrific response. I'm glad there are folks here who get it.
 
Old 02-15-2010, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Wallens Ridge
3,122 posts, read 4,933,220 times
Reputation: 17269
Joe,

You come here and make like you discovered a new alternative fuel or something . This has been chewed, swallowed, regurgitated,digested, and swallowed again for years on this board. And before the internet my dad had these conversations in the late 50' early 60's.

I love it! When the economy is good no wants to be a civil servant but when it goes sour, they are the first to get blamed for it. You have to laugh. When I became a Police Officer, my friends were like why? Then the mid to late 90's came, my friends making 200,000 + on wall street would turn their noes at me, like I never amounted to anything. I remember going to one of these parties and my buddies and party-goers doing lines, living the good life You don't become a civil servant to get rich, you take it for the benefits.


When the dot.com bubble ended so did the lifestyle of most of my friends
Now my career with its job security and benefits didn't seem that bad Now that the economy has taking a downturn again .....lets blame on that guy across the street the cop. He seems like never works always home, has a great sick,vacation,benefit package yeah he's the problem.

Did you just get laid off? Did you just move to the Island and didn't factor in your taxes? Did your company just do or thinking of downsizing? If it's so good, you should have taken the job. I've had numerous surgeries, walk like a cripple,been stabbed, shot at, drove over. What do you do for a living? Now that paper cut doesn't look that bad, right?

Move along folks....nothing new here ........
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