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Old 08-03-2012, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Nassau County
5,271 posts, read 4,713,351 times
Reputation: 3968

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMalo View Post
I can tell you now that you will not see any police in Suffolk with masters degrees and former professional experience like you had up until now. 12 years is just too long for someone to wait to reach the top pay when you can already make more in the private sector.
Exactly. The big appeal used to be you could make 6 figures in such a short amount of time (5 years). That is now gone.

 
Old 08-03-2012, 09:04 AM
 
13,507 posts, read 16,964,906 times
Reputation: 9688
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMalo View Post
That's pretty disgraceful how the current PBA members were willing to throw the future members under the bus.

I don't understand why everyone gets so hung up on "free" health insurance. You need to look at it as total compensation. I used to work for Dell and whenever I was offered a promotion they would present me with an offer and it would list my "Total Target Compensation," which included my base salary, commission, cost of health care, etc. Decrease the police salary, make them contribute to health care, it makes no difference. It is the final number, the total cost per police that matters.

I can tell you now that you will not see any police in Suffolk with masters degrees and former professional experience like you had up until now. 12 years is just too long for someone to wait to reach the top pay when you can already make more in the private sector.

Of course it's about the total comp. The thing is the public would get much more in a bundle if the PBA didn't have that "$108K" base salary thing to hide behind. 108K max pay doesn't seem like such a big deal.

When you factor in total comp and overtime for SCPD and you end up closer to 180K per cop, now that would have more of the public screaming...as they should be.

Now you'll have old timers laughing at the new guys. The old timer will be coming to work in his BMW bragging about his 2 jet skis, while the new guys is still living with his parents for 5+ years.

Bellone is a clown.
 
Old 08-03-2012, 09:35 AM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,801 posts, read 10,068,973 times
Reputation: 7366
We all knew this was coming. Baloney was brought out by the PBA and he owed them big time.

Disgraceful. I really despise the SCPD PBA ... selling out future members just so the current members can keep the gravy train rolling

If I was Bellone I would have demanded a 30% pay cut and pay 25% of their health care in exchange for the highways.
 
Old 08-03-2012, 09:53 AM
 
13,507 posts, read 16,964,906 times
Reputation: 9688
Quote:
Originally Posted by WIHS2006 View Post
We all knew this was coming. Baloney was brought out by the PBA and he owed them big time.

Disgraceful. I really despise the SCPD PBA ... selling out future members just so the current members can keep the gravy train rolling

If I was Bellone I would have demanded a 30% pay cut and pay 25% of their health care in exchange for the highways.
It's truly amazing. He got absolutely nothing out of the current members, in fact they get big raises in the coming years after the pay freeze stops. In addition, they get the HW dept back and therefore more overtime as there are fewer cops for patrol.

The SCPD PBA just screwed the tax payer and future hires, and you have Bellone talking about doing something "historic". Historically pandering.
 
Old 08-03-2012, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Nassau County
5,271 posts, read 4,713,351 times
Reputation: 3968
Quote:
Originally Posted by WIHS2006 View Post
We all knew this was coming. Baloney was brought out by the PBA and he owed them big time.

Disgraceful. I really despise the SCPD PBA ... selling out future members just so the current members can keep the gravy train rolling

If I was Bellone I would have demanded a 30% pay cut and pay 25% of their health care in exchange for the highways.
Yup and it would have then just gone to Arbitration and some pro-union judge would have given them whatever they wanted anyway. Sad state of affairs. But I had to laugh that they are calling this "historic"
 
Old 08-03-2012, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Wallens Ridge
3,122 posts, read 4,936,121 times
Reputation: 17269
Wow, tough crowd here but I shouldn't expect otherwise lol

I look at it on face value as a big fat draw( but haven't seen the fine print or haven't spoken to anybody yet, so i'm going on what I just read)

As far as the UNION eating its unborn, that practice has been going on forever. When a union loses its leverage they always turn to the future hires for give backs. I've been on both sides of the fence and could tell you " You can't miss what you don't already have" plus you have to stand up for the current dues paying membership or you could lose your members in a heartbeat.

Short term the county got 3 years and 1.5% raise for the PD. A big key you guys are missing they(both side don't have to go arbitration, which costs the tax payers millions depending on how long it gets dragged out) I look at it as a 10 year 25% raise or 2.5% raises per year a far cry from the 6 or 8 % they were getting. They also get no retro pay which helps the county in the short term.

The county also got some good concessions, the stretch out to 12 years to top pay, member's paying into their health plans, starting salary won't be going up in the next 10 years. But these savings won't be seen for years down the road but eventually this will really help the county.

The drawbacks for the county, giving back the highways is a key issue both for manpower, enforcement issues it's a big win for the union. They (the SCPD) can use that to justify OT and mandatory coverage which would increase OT and pensions. The union also doesn't have to worry about layoffs and getting their salary's cut.

Short term the county saves a few bucks but in the long term the saving will more substantial.
I think it's a step in the right direction......

“It is better to take many small steps in the right direction than to make a great leap forward only to stumble backward.” or



Journey of a thousand miles begin with a single step.



I don't think either side can claim victory here......and again these are my opinions
 
Old 08-03-2012, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Tri-State Area
2,942 posts, read 5,989,412 times
Reputation: 1839
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gpsma View Post
Nothing like union solidarity...unions:eaters of the unborn.
Welcome, my brother.
 
Old 08-03-2012, 11:34 AM
 
13,507 posts, read 16,964,906 times
Reputation: 9688
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMike50 View Post
Wow, tough crowd here but I shouldn't expect otherwise lol

I look at it on face value as a big fat draw( but haven't seen the fine print or haven't spoken to anybody yet, so i'm going on what I just read)

As far as the UNION eating its unborn, that practice has been going on forever. When a union loses its leverage they always turn to the future hires for give backs. I've been on both sides of the fence and could tell you " You can't miss what you don't already have" plus you have to stand up for the current dues paying membership or you could lose your members in a heartbeat.

Short term the county got 3 years and 1.5% raise for the PD. A big key you guys are missing they(both side don't have to go arbitration, which costs the tax payers millions depending on how long it gets dragged out) I look at it as a 10 year 25% raise or 2.5% raises per year a far cry from the 6 or 8 % they were getting. They also get no retro pay which helps the county in the short term.

The county also got some good concessions, the stretch out to 12 years to top pay, member's paying into their health plans, starting salary won't be going up in the next 10 years. But these savings won't be seen for years down the road but eventually this will really help the county.

The drawbacks for the county, giving back the highways is a key issue both for manpower, enforcement issues it's a big win for the union. They (the SCPD) can use that to justify OT and mandatory coverage which would increase OT and pensions. The union also doesn't have to worry about layoffs and getting their salary's cut.

Short term the county saves a few bucks but in the long term the saving will more substantial.
I think it's a step in the right direction......

“It is better to take many small steps in the right direction than to make a great leap forward only to stumble backward.” or



Journey of a thousand miles begin with a single step.



I don't think either side can claim victory here......and again these are my opinions
Victory for: The current members, since they basically gave nothing back and they are already way overcompensated
Bellone: since the PBA backed him.

Loser: the taxpayer, and the new hire.
 
Old 08-03-2012, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Wallens Ridge
3,122 posts, read 4,936,121 times
Reputation: 17269
Quote:
Originally Posted by dman72 View Post
Victory for: The current members, since they basically gave nothing back and they are already way overcompensated
Bellone: since the PBA backed him.

Loser: the taxpayer, and the new hire.

Don't take this personal, just a friendly debate..... what would you like the current members to give back?

They already received no raises for almost 3 years, no retro pay and please don't sound like Joe and tell me give back 20% of their salary because in reality that's not going to happen.

There are steps taking place in the future to help off set pension costs and future hirees, not only with this contract but the newly legislated tier 6.

I know this doesn't satisfy your quick fix to the problem at hand but it is steps in the right direction. Sometimes you have to think long term and don't be so short sighted. I could say that half the counties problems is that they never think long term.

And on L.I. the taxpayer is always the loser so that ones a given
 
Old 08-03-2012, 12:08 PM
 
13,507 posts, read 16,964,906 times
Reputation: 9688
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMike50 View Post
Don't take this personal, just a friendly debate..... what would you like the current members to give back?

They already received no raises for almost 3 years, no retro pay and please don't sound like Joe and tell me give back 20% of their salary because in reality that's not going to happen.

There are steps taking place in the future to help off set pension costs and future hirees, not only with this contract but the newly legislated tier 6.

I know this doesn't satisfy your quick fix to the problem at hand but it is steps in the right direction. Sometimes you have to think long term and don't be so short sighted. I could say the have the counties problems is they never thing long term.

And on L.I. the taxpayer is always the loser so that ones a given
Who got personal?

Levy's use of the Sheriffs was a great move, and it should have been expanded. Shrink the SCPD out of existence unless they give serious concessions that include current members. The Sheriffs should have been used to take over every other non-patrol divison possible. That would have cut back on overtime for SCPD even further. It's obviousl that Bellones support from the PBA came out of him saying he'd end this.


The 15% towards Health insurance should have been for all members and a pay freeze for the forseeable furture. 108K plus overtime and a free pension is already too much. You'll have guys working another 20+ years who do not lose a single penny in comp because of this deal. Thanks Bellone for saving taxpayer money 15 years from now.

Bellone did no negotiating whatsoever, because none of the concessions came from anyone currently working. There was no leadership here at all.

Again, this deal is a joke.
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