Fla. utility: Union delayed crews for LIPA (Florida, Brewster: power lines, health insurance)
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IBEW is in Staten Island. Utility Workers of America (UWUA) in the 4 boroughs and Westchester. IBEW also in Orange & Rockland (ConEd subsidiary).
It's interesting that IBEW pulled this on LIPA for emergency workers who are probably only going to stay a month or so, yet they do nothing to ConEd for hiring private companies to provide non-union workers to do work for ConEd on a regular, everyday basis.
It's interesting that IBEW pulled this on LIPA for emergency workers who are probably only going to stay a month or so, yet they do nothing to ConEd for hiring private companies to provide non-union workers to do work for ConEd on a regular, everyday basis.
Enough of that weak mental stretch there, Interlude. They are not mutually exclusive. It's possible "the infrastructure is garbage and LIPA management is a dumping ground for political patronage positions" AND IBEW thuggery caused a great deal of suffering in money and services to alot of people. Try to grasp both concepts. They are both true.
LIPA's oversight was non-existent, the inmates were pretty much running the asylum giving themselves raises and providing no oversight. There is no excuse for a union to take advantage of a situation such as this, we will see the details through the investigation by the 10 member commission but I am sure it extends beyond the Florida workers, it's extremely doubtful that they selectively imposed union contracts on just those particular workers.
This will be very damaging to Cuomo and the legislators in the end, they put patronage ahead of residents.
LIPA's oversight was non-existent, the inmates were pretty much running the asylum giving themselves raises and providing no oversight. There is no excuse for a union to take advantage of a situation such as this, we will see the details through the investigation by the 10 member commission but I am sure it extends beyond the Florida workers, it's extremely doubtful that they selectively imposed union contracts on just those particular workers.
This will be very damaging to Cuomo and the legislators in the end, they put patronage ahead of residents.
I said it was LIKELY every non-union worker was delayed, as the executive director of FMEA also stated:
"I understand that there are other organizations throughout the Mid-Atlantic and the North-East that had the same situation."
What are you suggesting that they only pulled this BS contract on 1 utility? Is that why the APPA had to intervene to let the workers help?
The fact that even ONE worker was needlessly delayed for 4 days is enough for me to call it greedy thuggery, yes. That is not hyperbole, it is pure IBEW greed and a complete disregard for the public's safety. Stop trying to turn the tables and act like everyone else is overreacting while creating straw man arguments to deflect the truth.
IBEW was dead wrong. You're dead wrong. End of discussion.
I'm just asking for proof that EVERY non-union worker was delayed, and that people dying was ALL the fault of IBEW thuggery, which is what you said. Haven't seen it yet, so I guess the discussion really is over.
Up here, with the cold and the high cost of electricity, heating with electric would be financial suicide!
How much are the fees and taxes tacked onto your electric bills? I know someone who lives in FL and in her area there are so many fees (city, etc.) and taxes added on to the bill that the fees and taxes part of the bill actually costs more than the KWHs themselves. I'm sure it's different all over FL though, so perhaps her case is not typical. Kind of like how a pack of cigarettes is in NY: the cigs themselves cost less than the taxes attached to them.
We pay a monthly service charge of $4.50/month tacked onto the kwh used. And the only tax we pay is the state 2.5% gross receipts tax. And you're right - taxes/fees vary a lot from local area to local area. Here's a chart comparing costs around some parts of the country - including a fair number of areas in Florida:
Note that I'm a customer of Beaches Energy Services. Beaches is a small public utility company up here in the Jacksonville Beaches (it covers the beaches in Duval County - as well as the part of St. Johns County out at the beaches where I live). Our company doesn't generate power. It just buys power from the best/cheapest sources. So it's not saddled with a lot of costs/debt in terms of building power plants.
It doesn't have fixed rates. It has a base rate per kwh - which is adjusted up or down based on the cost of power (and yes - we went for quite a few years when the cost was adjusted down - in recent years - it's only been up).
OTOH - it does have a relatively large number of workers per customer. And the workers are local. I honestly don't know if they're union or non-union - because I haven't had any recent complaints about the service and therefore any need to look into why the service was bad (I did when I first moved here 15 years ago - because the company was basically a "hick company" - workers didn't know how to work on live lines - etc. - our area has really "grown up" a lot in the last 15 years). Operationally - what that means is that if the power goes down - we can have lots of boots on the ground fast in our local area. As opposed to some really big Florida power companies that cover large to super large geographical areas (like JEA or FPL). In the storm season of 2004 (the one with the huge number of storms everywhere in Florida) - we only lost power for about 8 hours - while FPL customers south of us in the same county lost power for weeks. FWIW - I think this was part of the LIPA problem - it's a large utility company with a relatively low % of workers to customers. Which - IMO - doesn't make it unique.
Also - I guess it doesn't hurt that I live in an area with newer subdivisions (many gated communities) with underground utilities. Our feeder lines are above ground - but most are the ones on those tall concrete towers. The feeder lines could come down - but we'd need a pretty bad storm to do it.
Anyway - reckon this is more than you care to know about my power - but perhaps it might provide some food for thought. Robyn
This is disgraceful on LIPA's part. This is what I'm talking about. Unions might not be popular here, and I totally agree on the timing of this particular issue. It's important to understand why IBEW did what they did.
There were plenty of customers that needed nothing more than their drop to be reconnected to their house. Local 25's unemployed guys could easily have been utilized. I know people personally who called LIPA to ask that, seeing how easy their repair was, why couldn't they just send one of the infinite supply of idle linemen...they were each told that they weren't high priority, and that they could hire their own electrician to avoid the wait.
LIPA didn't want to pay what they are contractually obligated to pay for labor. They continue to take our obscenely high rates and line their executives' pockets. When they present their rate cases, they cite the cost of labor as an obstacle. Even when their increases are approved, they have no PSC mandates on their workforce, so they operate with impunity and line their pockets. They use a natural disaster as their excuse to avoid paying. Then they pass the buck to the out of town companies to deal with the union when many of those companies are unfamiliar with the occupational climate here.
IBEW stood their ground...this issue here is going to play a huge part in the PSC investigation. That looming investigation is why Hervey quit...bank on it.
Last edited by Monty Brewster; 11-16-2012 at 05:16 AM..
This is disgraceful on LIPA's part. This is what I'm talking about. Unions might not be popular here, and I totally agree on the timing of this particular issue. It's important to understand why IBEW did what they did.
There were plenty of customers that needed nothing more than their drop to be reconnected to their house. Local 25's unemployed guys could easily have been utilized. I know people personally who called LIPA to ask that, seeing how easy their repair was, why couldn't they just send one of the infinite supply of idle linemen...they were each told that they weren't high priority, and that they could hire their own electrician to avoid the wait.
LIPA didn't want to pay what they are contractually obligated to pay for labor. They continue to take our obscenely high rates and line their executives' pockets. When they present their rate cases, they cite the cost of labor as an obstacle. Even when their increases are approved, they have no PSC mandates on their workforce, so they operate with impunity and line their pockets. They use a natural disaster as their excuse to avoid paying. Then they pass the buck to the out of town companies to deal with the union when many of those companies are unfamiliar with the occupational climate here.
IBEW stood their ground...this issue here is going to play a huge part in the PSC investigation. That looming investigation is why Hervey quit...bank on it.
This is what people need to understand. LIPAS problems are not the Unions. Its the management themselves. I have family who are linemen. LIPA normally contracts work out all the time. Lipa is known for setting up a major project and not allocating enough money to get it done. I bet the actual national grid linemen wouldn't have minded the electricians doing the smaller work.
Unions aren't as bad as people think. The problem is people listen to the newspapers .the very ones like newsday who are against unions because their parent company is fighting a battle trying to keep unions forming in their own companies.
This is what people need to understand. LIPAS problems are not the Unions. Its the management themselves. I have family who are linemen. LIPA normally contracts work out all the time. Lipa is known for setting up a major project and not allocating enough money to get it done. I bet the actual national grid linemen wouldn't have minded the electricians doing the smaller work.
Unions aren't as bad as people think. The problem is people listen to the newspapers .the very ones like newsday who are against unions because their parent company is fighting a battle trying to keep unions forming in their own companies.
RE: Last 2 posts above: It's interesting stuff I admit and good food for thought, but factually, few union electrician are lineman and would be climbing poles, going up in bucket trucks or are trained for emergency line repairs. Most of the unemployed guys are in the construction trade. They could definitely get the homes wired up to restore power but that came quite a few days later than the out of state line crews were needed/delayed. Still a mess, but just felt a need for a little clarity. Local guys could do the inspections and fix the house drops, no question. They were not going to go up in bucket trucks in the rain to fix poles which was the first priority. Still, it all ties in to the lack of communication and coordination by LIPA.
RE: Last 2 posts above: It's interesting stuff I admit and good food for thought, but factually, few union electrician are lineman and would be climbing poles, going up in bucket trucks or are trained for emergency line repairs. Most of the unemployed guys are in the construction trade. They could definitely get the homes wired up to restore power but that came quite a few days later than the out of state line crews were needed/delayed. Still a mess, but just felt a need for a little clarity. Local guys could do the inspections and fix the house drops, no question. They were not going to go up in bucket trucks in the rain to fix poles which was the first priority. Still, it all ties in to the lack of communication and coordination by LIPA.
Still:
- LIPA could have used local people to work instead of undercutting them. No need to point out the advantage to that. There were plenty of homes that could have regained power immediately by resecuring their drops. One could argue a lineman is overqualified for that job.
-As stated, whatever delay this union action caused falls squarely on LIPA's shoulders:
If they'd staffed for the storm ahead of time, no issue.
They waited until it was an emergency intentionally, to have government act to screw their union, screw the ratepayers, and the suits will profit from all of this. Once they looked outside for help, if they'd worked with the union themselves, as they should have, this wouldn't have happened. You can see the contractors were confused by this, they didn't understand it or know how to handle it. That fact contributed greatly to the delay, and it could have been avoided if LIPA did what they were supposed to do.
From a moral standpoint it makes the union look like the bad guys. That was LIPA's intent. It's a quagmire. LIPA is the root cause here, IMO
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