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Old 11-17-2012, 04:05 PM
 
Location: Stony Brook
2,897 posts, read 4,406,736 times
Reputation: 2752

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 11thhour666 View Post
They say this was the second worst hurricane to hit the US ever and vast majority were on within two weeks. Far less has hit the south and they've had large amounts out for 2 months! And we're not talking homes too damaged to hook up, flooded areas, or dangerous spots. We're talking main feeders on the ground for weeks along busy two lane roads. The reason you never hear of this is because the people affected simply don't have the voice to be heard like Long Island/NJ does. That and the population is simply more accepting of the situation, depressingly so nonetheless.

All this "why didn't they do this, hire them, or didn't do this" is trying to simplify a far more complicated scenario. The work to be done isn't as simple as picking up a shovel and working beside any shmoe that shows up. The power grid is a bomb! One brain fart with 13,000 volts and you wake up in the burn unit with stubs for hands and gauze rapped around your head. And the truth is for these guys, turning your power on IS NOT their top priority. Going home to see their wife and three little girls at the end of the day is.

Now the northeast and west coasts have "the" most complicated power grids in the country. Ironically, these states can be considered the union's heartland. What people fail to realize is the union is much more than a few bucks extra in the paycheck, it is a standard. A union lineman in NY has had the same training, same years in the apprenticeship, same reviews, and same tests as a lineman in CA. When a utility calls out for a union lineman, he gets a LINEMAN. There is no faking this. The men simply wouldn't stand for it or tarnish the union name. That and any utility can call up the union to prove any lineman's background. Dirty little secret on the non-union side is you're not always getting a lineman, often so. Sure you're paying for it, you're not getting it.

Who is to say this guy is a trained lineman??? That's right, nothing but the company he works for. Well, as you can see, every brother, uncle, relative jumps on board and this little rinky-dink non-union company makes bank charging your utility full lineman rate for 30 lineman when only 15-20 are actually so. Lineman premium for a guy working as a WalMart greater two days before. Of course productivity is a joke. Even helping out on the ground, it is not something one picks up overnight, or a month, or even a year.

Now back to the grid. Asking for more and more guys was fruitless. Most of the guys coming in were from the rural south and midwest, heavy nonunion areas. Putting the whole nonunion thing aside, most these guys have absolutely no experience with such an urban power grid. Kind of like walking into the stadium of the big leagues and all you're comfortably doing is acting as bat-boy. These guys don't deal with multiple circuits, over/under builds, urban isolation techniques, transformer banks with exotic secondary outputs, various remotely controlled voltage controlling devices, smart grid devices, etc. etc. etc. This ain't no giving the farm house power down the dirt lane on yonder type stuff. Nor do they have the tools and test equipment to deal with many of the situations.

A practice in the south is giving every line crew a "bird dog." This is a knowledgable utility employee that leads the contract crew(s) around, who makes all the phone calls, brings up the circuit maps, knows the procedures, specifications, and best places to eat In the northeast, this handholding doesn't always happen and when it does, it is often some intern boy who knows nothing about anything electrical and only qualifications is that he knows the area. If you're used to this, it does really matter and doesn't affect your work in the least. If not, and rightfully so, you do what the trade has taught you. If you don't know what you're doing, it is best not to do anything at all. This simply isn't a trade where you can guess or assume, you just can't.

Now linemen work outside and their knowledge stops at your house knob. Where or how the electric goes from there, they don't care nor do they probably even understand. "Electricians" are the guys who deal with all things electrical on the inside of the building (low voltage type things). Now why can't these guys hook up house services? How are you going to get power? At some point the fuse has to be refused, hung and thrown on the high voltage side. Plus to hook up the service, this puts a guy "in the zone" of the high voltage. Why would any company run the risk of putting a nube in such a situation??? There is more to it than simply "don't touch that." Lineman are ALWAYS aware of their surroundings, always. This is a learned trait perfected over years. Sure a man may know what he can and can not touch but in one brain laps, he booms himself that two feet up and catches that high voltage stinger to the back of his neck. That, and there are simply so many variables and things to look for between high/low voltage situations on storm to even ponder the possibility or rap my mind around.

Now vanity. There is absolutely nothing wrong with overhead lines. They are actually extremely durable and resistant. I've pulled a date nail out of one pole that read 1931. The problem is the trees! It seems the coastal areas let their trees grow around their lines to ungodly heights. Power lines literally going through tunnels of trees. Sure it is picture perfect but at some point you have to pay the fiddler, realize this. But why doesn't the power company trim them? You're right, they have every right to trim them. But being in affluent areas where every other house threatens a lawsuit if they even touch their precious oak, you can see why they don't get trimmed. Sure, the utility will win but this doesn't negate the fact it still cost major mula to defend one's self Lets not forget the power company is a "business." All businesses I know avoid lawsuits at all costs. Now my area is lower/middle middle class where their isn't a threatening tree within sight of the majority of the power line. Last time I lost power was maybe the 90's? But I still have a generator. I still have alternative heat sources. I still prepare. Cause you never know. Relying completely on electricity is exceedingly foolish.

Now these back yard power lines. W....T....F....????? If a tree breaks your pole, how are you going to fix that??? Whoever planned these communities out needs to be strung and quartered. Kind of nice not seeing the line from the front yard, but a one hour fix via truck from the road now takes a day or more! Of course everyone has their fence up, shrubbery everywhere, playgrounds, toys, and dogs running amuck never thinking that one day a 45ft, one ton pole might need to be maneuvered back there one day. And of course ever pole needs to be physically climbed (maybe even hand dug). And the wire can't simply be boomed over and through all the shrubbery and trees but rope must be thrown from clear area to clear area. This is a major reason WHY your power takes days and days to get back on. There is no speeding up this process. Fixing lines in back yards is an extremely slow and arduous process. God forbid it be a transformer pole. Now one need lots of rope, pulleys, and men with a strong backs. That 600 lb. tranny needs to get up there somehow. Again, this same procedure is but 5 minutes from the road. The cherry on top seems to be the pole is always in the back yard of the guy who hasn't had power for a week but is still concerned with you scuffing his yard up.

Concerning unions. All unions are different even inner-union! The I B E W may cover everybody from communications, street lights, high voltage, low voltage, substation, what have you but they are broken up into their own self governed "locals" (several locals in each state) with separate health insurances, retirement plans, pay rates, safety rules, and bylaws. Dare I say it, there is even inner-union hate between locals. Hell a union lineman might say he'd rather work beside a non-union lineman before he works with a union electrician. Start talking seniority and mandatory 15min. breaks to the same guy and he'll look at you like you're from Mars. There is none of this. This isn't the teacher's union for god's sake. Unions are as different as there are companies.

Now this Alabama crew that supposed got turned away and the whole situation revealed itself to be false. They never ever even directly talked to the I B E W. Lets just assume for a moment that it was true, for a moment. Six guys is a pitiful amount. They probably brought three trucks with them. Certainly not the amount you head to ground zero with. Realize companies that go to ground zero have absolute legions of trucks! Hundreds! And these companies own entire circuits and small towns. Again, when dealing with high voltage, you want to KNOW who is down the line from you working. One guy's actions at some place can blow the hand off a guy five miles down the line, if he lives And when dealing with feeder lines early in the game, this is a real threat. I'm sorry, but if you can't fire that monkey brain on enough cylinders to secure work for six guys when over eight million are out over both union AND NONUNION states, you need to pack that circus up and go home. They did the right thing. It is truly scary there are companies out there like this and makes me throw an extra twenty in the plate at church. Linemen need all the angels I can get.

Now my home utility, we get nonunion in the area all the time when a storm hits. Now some operations are respectfully known as safe knowledgable companies not even given a second thought by most union men and others , I'd rather quit than work anywhere near them. Of course watching the Fox News smear program is always entertaining. My grandfather always had the saying "Where there are facts, there is no news." Were workers really turned away for their nonunion status...or was it their "shoot the coffee out your nose" safety record? All these supposed union "gangs", and picket lines, and confrontations, and not one camera phone in the bunch??? The breaking news each time is starting to take on that of a broken record. Maybe reconsideration should be given to who the real liars are.
WOW! GREAT post.
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Old 11-17-2012, 05:14 PM
 
159 posts, read 408,474 times
Reputation: 100
Didn't I read somewhere that somewhere around 14,000 workers from out of state showed up and LIPA didn't know how to dispatch them?
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:30 AM
 
764 posts, read 1,553,404 times
Reputation: 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by yoelmo View Post
Didn't I read somewhere that somewhere around 14,000 workers from out of state showed up and LIPA didn't know how to dispatch them?

It was actually 16,000 and yes that was the problem. I actually talked to a person who works managing the crews (still a national grid contracted employee) and the problem is that the system the board implemented was not built for hurricanes. It couldn't handle the 98 percent of the system that was down NOR the 16,000 contractors that came in.

So basically the guys managing the crews had to rely on radios and physically driving to the crews to find out how they were doing because the system put in place was useless.

The whole board should be fired. How do you implement a system on an ISLAND that doesn't take a hurricane into consideration? A computer system ALWAYS should be designed for the worst possible outcome.
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Old 11-19-2012, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Little Babylon
5,072 posts, read 9,144,053 times
Reputation: 2612
Because Long Island very rarely gets hurricanes. At least that's what I've heard.
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,617 posts, read 21,483,492 times
Reputation: 6794
I grew up on Long Island in the 1950's/early 60's and recall hurricanes/being without power/etc.

You can see the list of storms here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...950.E2.80.9374

Robyn
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