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Plumbers make more money on Long Island because COL is higher, the salary is an outlier. Other states I resided (that had a lower COL), plumbers were only making about $30/hour or ~$60,000 annually. Anecdotally, my plumber on LI was unable to afford the COL and ended up moving to Florida.
GP in NYC/LI eventually average $195,000-$210,000. While GP makes less than specialist, they also pay less in malpractice. And no, GPs can never be replaced by NPs and PAs because they need to be supervised by physician in order to practice. Coincidentally, many NPs are now going into specialty. If anything, we'll see a slight increase in GP with more loan forgiveness programs and DO schools opening. All doctors (and most other healthcare providers/assistants) work 6 days a week with long hours, simple fact. Despite the long work days and hours, healthcare has tremendous demand, job security, a decent to excellent salary, and very rewarding which will always make it an attractive field. I work in healthcare too BTW.
Plumbers make closer to $80 per hour. Union plumbers make that easily and public work prevailing wages are at that rate and higher plus good hours and great benefits. A self-employed plumber makes closer to $150 per hour but pays his own benefits and has overhead, but of course can hire workers to make much more.
I saw Mike Rowe (host of former show Dirty Jobs) on Bill Maher's show the other night and he started a foundation to get the USA back to focusing on skilled trades as there is actually MORE of a shortage of skilled tradespeople than STEM based jobs and general practitioners combined. Our education system has indoctrinated us all (particularly the post boomers) with the notion that unless we make $200k in a cubicle, on Wall St, as a rock star, game programmer or top tier litigation lawyer we aren't going to live the "dream". Fact is big companies across the country cannot find apprentices or skilled laborers for jobs that start in the $40's and $50's and go over $100k by 5 years in, not including management opportunities. Shop classes and vocational schools have become places only for troubled kids or at risk youth or to be cut from budgets as "frivolous." Not everyone can be a Siemens scholar but a smart kid with average grades can excel at mechanics, robotics, electrical, plumbing, etc. and have a rock solid shot at achieving the American dream. And can fix his own house! Sweet. Just saying.
Plumbers make closer to $80 per hour. Union plumbers make that easily and public work prevailing wages are at that rate and higher plus good hours and great benefits. A self-employed plumber makes closer to $150 per hour but pays his own benefits and has overhead, but of course can hire workers to make much more.
I saw Mike Rowe on Bill Maher's show the other night and he started a foundation to get the USA back to focusing on skilled trades as there is actually MORE of a shortage of skilled tradespeople than STEM based jobs and general practitioners combined. Our education system has indoctrinated us all (particularly the post boomers) with the notion that unless we make $200k in a cubicle, on Wall St, as a rock star, game programmer or top tier litigation lawyer we aren't going to live the "dream". Fact is big companies across the country cannot find apprentices or skilled laborers for jobs that start in the $40's and $50's and go over $100k by 5 years in, not including management opportunities. Shop classes and vocational schools have become places only for troubled kids or at risk youth or to be cut from budgets as "frivolous." Not everyone can be a Siemens scholar but a smart kid with average grades can excel at mechanics, robotics, electrical, plumbing, etc. and have a rock solid shot at achieving the American dream. And can fix his own house! Sweet. Just saying.
I agree. Tradesman a great career and always needed. I think they deserve more respect. However, it's not for me since I could never do that kind of physical labor all the time. I'm not totally familiar with the salary they make on LI, but the plumbers I had in Upstate NY and Florida were only charging $30-$50. I think I paid about $300 for my plumber once here. I assume they make more on LI. I do think plumbers can make very good money, but I wouldn't say they usually make more than GP, but hey you never know with the high COL on LI it's hard to determine how far anyone's money goes.
Plumbers make more money on Long Island because COL is higher, the salary is an outlier. Other states I resided (that had a lower COL), plumbers were only making about $30/hour or ~$60,000 annually. Anecdotally, my plumber on LI was unable to afford the COL and ended up moving to Florida.
GP in NYC/LI eventually average $195,000-$210,000. While GP makes less than specialist, they also pay less in malpractice and have more loan forgiveness programs. And no, GPs can never be replaced by NPs and PAs since they need to be supervised by physician in order to practice. Coincidentally, many NPs are now going into specialty. If anything, we'll see a slight increase in GP with more DO schools opening. Most doctors on LI don't work 6 days a week if they work in large group practices (which is very common on LI now). Either way, both generalists and specialists (and most other healthcare providers/assistants) can often work 6 days a week with long hours..it's simple nature of the field. Despite the long work days and hours, healthcare has tremendous demand, job security, a decent to excellent salary which will always make it an attractive field. I work in healthcare too BTW and I'll take it any day over a tradesman job (nothing wrong with tradesman career just same reason as LegalDiva posted above).
The statistics I quoted were from DOL for LI, your GP's were accurate but plumbers were not. Go talk to any GP or some specialists for that matter and they will tell you that it's not worth the investment, in a few years they will all be NP's on LI. Many NP's already work in GP offices or have gone into practice on their own in clinics, just a matter of time. Job security is not the question, it's the expense and education to work long hours in what has become a very complicated business.
Plumbers make closer to $80 per hour. Union plumbers make that easily and public work prevailing wages are at that rate and higher plus good hours and great benefits. A self-employed plumber makes closer to $150 per hour but pays his own benefits and has overhead, but of course can hire workers to make much more.
I saw Mike Rowe (host of former show Dirty Jobs) on Bill Maher's show the other night and he started a foundation to get the USA back to focusing on skilled trades as there is actually MORE of a shortage of skilled tradespeople than STEM based jobs and general practitioners combined. Our education system has indoctrinated us all (particularly the post boomers) with the notion that unless we make $200k in a cubicle, on Wall St, as a rock star, game programmer or top tier litigation lawyer we aren't going to live the "dream". Fact is big companies across the country cannot find apprentices or skilled laborers for jobs that start in the $40's and $50's and go over $100k by 5 years in, not including management opportunities. Shop classes and vocational schools have become places only for troubled kids or at risk youth or to be cut from budgets as "frivolous." Not everyone can be a Siemens scholar but a smart kid with average grades can excel at mechanics, robotics, electrical, plumbing, etc. and have a rock solid shot at achieving the American dream. And can fix his own house! Sweet. Just saying.
I saw parts of that makes a lot of sense, companies like Caterpillar and others cannot get enough people for skilled positions, they even offer training and can't attract candidates. Too many future Wall Street execs waiting for their chance.
I saw parts of that makes a lot of sense, companies like Caterpillar and others cannot get enough people for skilled positions, they even offer training and can't attract candidates. Too many future Wall Street execs waiting for their chance.
It was definitely food for thought. I've worked my way up and been fortunate but am often haunted by both my grandfathers back in the 70's saying "LEARN A TRADE!" I guess it makes sense on LI where we sink so much $ into the schools. We expect every kid to go to Harvard. Plus most union jobs in NY seem to be built on corruption and nepotism and almost as hard to break into as Wall St. Also no real manufacturing left so not as much feeder businesses repairing equipment and infrastructure needed. All just more of the complexities of LI's poor economic growth prospects.
I'd say that a civil service union position in a skilled trade is very hard to achieve but a private company not as bad. The thing is you have to put your time in a work those menial jobs to network and learn hands on. By no means am I comparing a plumber to a doctor but, there are ways to make a real money without investing real money or going into real debt.
As to the hard back breaking work in extreme temps? That's what separates the men from the boys. The ones that can do it can be successful. If parents were more realistic the last 15-20 years I'd say the trades wouldn't be as frowned upon.
I saw Mike Rowe (host of former show Dirty Jobs) on Bill Maher's show the other night and he started a foundation to get the USA back to focusing on skilled trades as there is actually MORE of a shortage of skilled tradespeople than STEM based jobs and general practitioners combined. Our education system has indoctrinated us all (particularly the post boomers) with the notion that unless we make $200k in a cubicle, on Wall St, as a rock star, game programmer or top tier litigation lawyer we aren't going to live the "dream". Fact is big companies across the country cannot find apprentices or skilled laborers for jobs that start in the $40's and $50's and go over $100k by 5 years in, not including management opportunities. Shop classes and vocational schools have become places only for troubled kids or at risk youth or to be cut from budgets as "frivolous." Not everyone can be a Siemens scholar but a smart kid with average grades can excel at mechanics, robotics, electrical, plumbing, etc. and have a rock solid shot at achieving the American dream. And can fix his own house! Sweet. Just saying.
I've been saying this for years. Would love for one of my kids to be in a trade. Only problem is those jobs can be physically debilitating so you really have to have a good head on your shoulders and save wisely.
Not everyone is college material, it makes me crazy when people and politicians say "our goal should be everyone going to college". When I graduated, many of my friends were the first in their families to go on to higher education, but a college education could be had - all 4 years - for well less than one parents salary. I'll be damned if I'm going to saddle myself or my kids with a huge amount of debt. My nephew is in college now and after years of his parents telling him they will do what they can for him but he's going to be largely responsible for paying for it, he is making his own way and expects to graduate with minimal debt. Worked two jobs this summer. Too many parents out there trying to foot the bill for these ridiculously pricey colleges, paying tutors and whatnot to get the kids in, and how much money is the kid really going to make???
You are right about the schools on LI, mongoose. After paying property taxes through the nose for 12 years, parents want a return on that investment. Yet another mentality I was happy to get away from. I have several friends in this neighborhood who kids graduated within the last 2-3 years and every single one went to a NC state university, was employed upon graduation and moved out when they graduated. That's not happening on LI without a ton of parental $ support. I don't know one person in this neighborhood who has a college graduate living with them...and there are MANY people with kids that age.
The statistics I quoted were from DOL for LI, your GP's were accurate but plumbers were not. Go talk to any GP or some specialists for that matter and they will tell you that it's not worth the investment, in a few years they will all be NP's on LI. Many NP's already work in GP offices or have gone into practice on their own in clinics, just a matter of time. Job security is not the question, it's the expense and education to work long hours in what has become a very complicated business.
The NYS DOL states that plumbers in Nassau and Suffolk make only around $30-$40/hour. The average annual salary for plumbers in the US is $50,000. I have no doubt that there are many plumbers making way more and doing very well. In general though, I wouldn't say the average plumber is making more money than the average physician if looking at salary alone.
I work with physicians on a regular basis and have many friends who are physicians and healthcare professionals, so I know the healthcare field very well. Both GPs and specialists are having difficulty running independent offices everywhere in the country, which is why large group practices are being formed in high population areas. The reason there is a physician shortage is because there is not enough teaching hospitals for residencies, not because people don't want to invest in it (otherwise medical school wouldn't be this ridiculously competitive). Nursing school and graduate programs have also gotten very competitive with limited spots due to the shortage of nursing instructors. Therefore, saying that NPs will replace physicians is actually a catch 22 in reality.
Last edited by ThinkingElsewhere; 07-29-2013 at 08:48 AM..
The NYS DOL states that plumbers in Nassau and Suffolk make only around $30-$40/hour. The average annual salary for plumbers in the US is $50,000. I have no doubt that there are many plumbers making way more and doing very well. In general though, I wouldn't say the average plumber is making more money than the average physician if looking at salary alone.
I work with physicians on a regular basis and know the healthcare field well. Both GPs and specialists are having difficulty running independent offices everywhere in the country, which is why large group practices are being formed in high population areas. The reason there is a physician shortage is because there is not enough teaching hospitals for residencies, not because people don't want to invest in it (otherwise medical school wouldn't be ridiculously competitive). Nursing school and graduate programs has also gotten very competitive with limited spots due to the shortage of nursing instructors. Saying that NPs will replace physicians is actually a catch 22 in reality.
Not really related to the GP discussion but you are misreading that DOL link. Prevailing wage is made up of the hourly rate PLUS the supplemental so you'll find there is not a job classification anywhere in that list that pays less than $45/hr (The $30-$40hr you reference PLUS the supplemental of approx. $19-$35hr). The wages avg $49 to $90+ per hour. I do not know where you are finding a $50k/yr average for NYS. Generally I agree the doc still makes more but based on hours, pressure, benefits, loan debt, etc it gets absurdly close. That's what is so crazy. Doctor? Lawyer? Heck no, I want my kid to grow up to be a TEAMSTER!! lol
I've been saying this for years. Would love for one of my kids to be in a trade. Only problem is those jobs can be physically debilitating so you really have to have a good head on your shoulders and save wisely.
Not everyone is college material, it makes me crazy when people and politicians say "our goal should be everyone going to college". When I graduated, many of my friends were the first in their families to go on to higher education, but a college education could be had - all 4 years - for well less than one parents salary. I'll be damned if I'm going to saddle myself or my kids with a huge amount of debt. My nephew is in college now and after years of his parents telling him they will do what they can for him but he's going to be largely responsible for paying for it, he is making his own way and expects to graduate with minimal debt. Worked two jobs this summer. Too many parents out there trying to foot the bill for these ridiculously pricey colleges, paying tutors and whatnot to get the kids in, and how much money is the kid really going to make???
You are right about the schools on LI, mongoose. After paying property taxes through the nose for 12 years, parents want a return on that investment. Yet another mentality I was happy to get away from. I have several friends in this neighborhood who kids graduated within the last 2-3 years and every single one went to a NC state university, was employed upon graduation and moved out when they graduated. That's not happening on LI without a ton of parental $ support. I don't know one person in this neighborhood who has a college graduate living with them...and there are MANY people with kids that age.
You are correct on many points. I can agree, what a shame it is on LI how long after the age of 21 parents are still financially supporting their kids.They are still living at home without being able too support themselves.The other side of you're point. Parents saddled down with their children's education debt. Only too see their kids fading off in the sunset with a new arm tattoo and a skateboard under their feet.
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