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No. A Right to Work state means one thing: that employees who work for a union workplace have a right NOT to join the union.
If we were right to work, do you think we would have all our school districts full of union teachers instead of hiring them non-union at the going rate like the private schools do and saving a fortune in real estate taxes?
No. A Right to Work state means one thing: that employees who work for a union workplace have a right NOT to join the union.
If we were right to work, do you think we would have all our school districts full of union teachers instead of hiring them non-union at the going rate like the private schools do and saving a fortune in real estate taxes?
Ok, so I am confused... but my company has something like that that I signed... it's like you can leave at any time without a reason but they can can you at any time without a reason too... they called it right to work but I guess it's something else.
Yeah you do have electricity but how much does it cost per KWH versus other locations? The rates in Texas and Memphis are half of what you pay. So who is making up what?
Airports are an ancillary requirement and I do not mean to exaggerate its importance. With that said if your profession requires you to travel abroad 30% of the time then someone based in Suffolk could be looking at a 1+hr ride to JFK to catch flights to Asia and other growth markets. Think of knowledge workers trying to court businesses in other countries. You can rule out Suffolk for that. But yes, this is not the most important thing that needs to get done.
Simply put, if I was making things up as you say, then there would be nothing to talk about in this thread. No empty offices in Garden City. No problem replacing the NG jobs. The problem of lacking higher paying jobs is just an imagination and everyone would be happy with the way things are, right?
Ok, making up may have been a poor choice of words. Maybe detracting from the bigger issues? IDK. If a large company is looking to expand to LI, I don't think airports and electricity (especially electricity being on) will be the main considerations. You could get around LIPA costs in some ways like Canon did with their solar and wind installation project in Melville (although they ran into some NIMBYism, not sure how that worked out for them). Turbine plan stalls at Canon site; board to weigh noise, distance factors
You make a valid point on the cost with LIPA. It is an issue to a degree. If you're comparing to ConEd though, I think LIPA is still slightly cheaper.
Noticed a couple of interesting threads in parallel with intelligent comments and good ideas...
It's a drop in the ocean, but (to my surprise) the university (Stony Brook) is doing well, and the plan is to expand - over the next 2-3 years - about 35-40% increase in faculty in the College of Engineering and about 8-10% increase at the School of Medicine.
These are made possible by the recent Simons gift, some favorable (for the university) changes in tuition, and by a good (guaranteed) budget from Albany for the next 3-4 years.
As university faculty, we are not particularly well paid, esp. considering the COL here. We also lack some major benefits available to many colleagues at places I have worked. A big one is free college education for our kids - places like Hopkins, Columbia etc cover 100% tuition for children of faculty to go to the same institution or match a substantial portion if the child goes elsewhere. We have nothing - no benefit like that even if the child attends a SUNY school. Unlike teachers and cops, we do not have guaranteed pensions either.
Anyway, this increase of faculty hires hopefully will do good for the local housing market (immediate vicinity of the university).
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In terms of STEM training - I think our undergraduate programs do rather well; our curriculum is competitive and our programs are ABET-accredited (means we do tons of paperwork, checks etc to satisfy certain requirements driven by industry input).
We just opened in Fall 2012 a new civil engineering program with a focus on transportation - quite relevant to all ideas discussed here in other threads. Hopefully, down the road - this will have an impact...
BUT, our STEM trainees who are headed for graduate or medical school do much better than the ones who want to start working after their undergraduate degree immediately.
The reason for that is, as discussed at length, very limited local opportunities for internships, direct exposure, pro-active recruiting on campus etc. In a place with limited industry is hard to help these kids find positions, even if their basic training is comparable to other schools with better ties to industry...
That causes frustration. Many resort to staying for a Masters degree or adding business angle etc.
Industry does not need them to have more degrees, it's just hard to find a match.
I looked up commercial electric rates in Freeport and Memphis. Freeport was much more straightforward and easy to understand. Approximately 43% less than LIPA. Memphis was another story ... PDF after PDF of scenarios. If FHD's statement is correct that Memphis is half (50%) of what we pay then maybe there is hope with Freeport being 43% less ... PROVIDED more parts of Long Island can have electricity other than LIPA. Right now there's only 3 places on LI: Freeport, Rockville Centre, and Greenport.
It depends on the kind of businesses you want to attract. If the goal is to make LI catch LI spillover like what JC is trying to do, then maybe not. But it's becoming a crowded space and the kinds of companies that spilled over to JC have are themselves moving to other states. Goldman Sachs has an agreement to keep 8,900 jobs in NYC in exchange for tax incentives but everyone knows the economics won't work out without those tax breaks. Maybe it's better to attract industries where LI can have a real advantage instead of getting into an agressive bidding war for tax breaks.
Yes! You're correct... Those back-office groups that migrated from Manhattan office to JC are being hit with lay-offs and transfers to still cheaper digs. Most of the Investment firms to beat a path to JC are downsizing in an aggressive manner, others like GS have moved workforces to places like Salt Lake City, where the cost of living is much, much lower, cost of utilities is very, very low and there's cheap commercial real estate for the picking.
The never-ending drive to reduce costs is going to shaft NYC and the surrounding areas in a big way, leaving only front-office operations, if that. Long Island isn't even the ball park. Too bad.
If Long Island is so dependent on "small business" as is always spouted and costs are too high for small business then giving the keys to the island to a few large corporations is highly beneficial in the short term. Jobs equal tax base and the need for feeder businesses/industries. In Austin, the Dell boom also exploded the chip boom, the clean room boom, the programming boom, the logistics boom, marketing, right down to the fast food joints that sell lunch (damn good BBQ by the way). For LI it may not be the best way but to bleed jobs by the thousands has the reverse trickle effect. Empty storefront, tons of vacant office space, general decline/malaise. Even 3 or 4 more Canons would be a boon if they can employ 2 or 3 thousand workers. It grows everything around it and we could sure use those 3 or 4 thousand neighbors chipping in to pay my kid's gym teacher and superintendent. It takes a village at least to manage those costs!
As always it's about balance. I don't want the union bunch to go suck asbestos w/ no medical, but if my taxes can pay for insane cop and teacher welfare (at the continued detriment to kid's programming), then I can support some stimulus spending for roads, railroads, power grids and business development.
I agree with big business. But then what kind of big businesses? Outside of tech startups, the ones NYC is extending tax breaks to are ones that shouldn't be around anymore. I think NYU commissioned a study once called FIRE-ICE with FIRE pertaining to the shrinking industries of finance, insurance and real estate. JC courted some FIREs to Exchange Place(?) and now they are looking to leave unless they are given more tax breaks. Wouldn't it be better for LI to attract big companies that can use its natural advantage instead of companies that might leave anyway?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbathedog
Yes! You're correct... Those back-office groups that migrated from Manhattan office to JC are being hit with lay-offs and transfers to still cheaper digs. Most of the Investment firms to beat a path to JC are downsizing in an aggressive manner, others like GS have moved workforces to places like Salt Lake City, where the cost of living is much, much lower, cost of utilities is very, very low and there's cheap commercial real estate for the picking.
The never-ending drive to reduce costs is going to shaft NYC and the surrounding areas in a big way, leaving only front-office operations, if that. Long Island isn't even the ball park. Too bad.
Yup, that is what I meant. No use using tax breaks to lure them to LI even if some of them bite.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pequaman
Ok, making up may have been a poor choice of words. Maybe detracting from the bigger issues? IDK. If a large company is looking to expand to LI, I don't think airports and electricity (especially electricity being on) will be the main considerations. You could get around LIPA costs in some ways like Canon did with their solar and wind installation project in Melville (although they ran into some NIMBYism, not sure how that worked out for them). Turbine plan stalls at Canon site; board to weigh noise, distance factors
You make a valid point on the cost with LIPA. It is an issue to a degree. If you're comparing to ConEd though, I think LIPA is still slightly cheaper.
Airports - It will be a consideration for companies whose businesses require at least 25% travel. Not an issue in western Nassau and yes, not the the most important thing that needs to be done in the greater sense.
Energy - True, there are many ways to get around. I believe the house of Mary Kennedy in Westchester was supposed to be 100% solar power. But to do it in a commercial scale is too much trouble esp. if there are places that simply offer 50% lower rates. Bless Canon for having the patience and loyalty but most companies will simply look elsewhere. There is a reason why self-sufficient island economies have invested heavily in power generation.
The gist is it depends on what kind of economy you would like LI to have. If the goal is to stop the bleeding, stay as a bedroom economy and try to catch spillover from NYC, you can get around with what you have today. But if you want one that is different, then infra has to be retooled. As I noted, the economy that LI has now does not leverage on its natural advantages.
Last edited by Forest_Hills_Daddy; 03-07-2013 at 04:03 PM..
Open a national/internationally competing production facility in:
Long Island:
$90,000 median salary
$8-10K median RE tax.
1900's infrastructure and power supply
NIMBY
Corruption and NY style anti-business taxation
or
Anywhereelse, USA:
$30-40,000 median salary
$2,000 RE tax
2000's infrastructure and power supply
Actively looking to bring in business
Tax breaks and business-friendly government
I agree with big business. But then what kind of big businesses? Outside of tech startups, the ones NYC is extending tax breaks to are ones that shouldn't be around anymore. I think NYU commissioned a study once called FIRE-ICE with FIRE pertaining to the shrinking industries of finance, insurance and real estate. JC courted some FIREs to Exchange Place(?) and now they are looking to leave unless they are given more tax breaks. Wouldn't it be better for LI to attract big companies that can use its natural advantage instead of companies that might leave anyway?
Yup, that is what I meant. No use using tax breaks to lure them to LI even if some of them bite.
Airports - It will be a consideration for companies whose businesses require at least 25% travel. Not an issue in western Nassau and yes, not the the most important thing that needs to be done in the greater sense.
Energy - True, there are many ways to get around. I believe the house of Mary Kennedy in Westchester was supposed to be 100% solar power. But to do it in a commercial scale is too much trouble esp. if there are places that simply offer 50% lower rates. Bless Canon for having the patience and loyalty but most companies will simply look elsewhere. There is a reason why self-sufficient island economies have invested heavily in power generation.
The gist is it depends on what kind of economy you would like LI to have. If the goal is to stop the bleeding, stay as a bedroom economy and try to catch spillover from NYC, you can get around with what you have today. But if you want one that is different, then infra has to be retooled. As I noted, the economy that LI has now does not leverage on its natural advantages.
The best our incompetent and corrupt local leaders do is sponsor additional commercial development (lots of land grabs going on in my neck of the woods right now) and provide retention bribes for existing business. Land grabs favor developers who don't care about much other than the real estate deal and those retention deals feature tax and utility concessions that punish the tax payers and don't really work over the long term anyway.
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