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It would be interesting to do the following two studies:
1. Of the people who commute from Long Island to NYC, how many of them are doing it by choice (to get a higher paying job in NYC, or a job that is somehow more desireable) vs. how many of them are doing it because they are unable to find any job in their field on Long Island
2. Of people who commute to NYC but live in the middle part of Long Island (such as Ronkonkoma), how many of them are living in the middle of Long Island by choice (to get a bigger house) vs. how many of them are living there because they cannot afford anything closer to the city
It seems that people here are making the false assumptions that everyone can find a job on Long Island (even if slightly lower paying) and that everyone can afford to live close to the city (even if in a slightly smaller house). I feel both of those assumptions are false, but others here seem not to agree.
I fit into category 1. I do not want to work on Long Island. I want to work in Manhattan and that's what I do. I do it by choice.
It would be interesting to do the following two studies:
1. Of the people who commute from Long Island to NYC, how many of them are doing it by choice (to get a higher paying job in NYC, or a job that is somehow more desireable) vs. how many of them are doing it because they are unable to find any job in their field on Long Island
2. Of people who commute to NYC but live in the middle part of Long Island (such as Ronkonkoma), how many of them are living in the middle of Long Island by choice (to get a bigger house) vs. how many of them are living there because they cannot afford anything closer to the city
It seems that people here are making the false assumptions that everyone can find a job on Long Island (even if slightly lower paying) and that everyone can afford to live close to the city (even if in a slightly smaller house). I feel both of those assumptions are false, but others here seem not to agree.
I agree wholeheartedly with your premise. Don't know why others on this thread were attacking you but there is something to be said for quality of life being an important factor when house shopping.
For me - as to # 1 - I was in the group that reluctantly had to work in NYC because (1) thats where most of the law firms I wanted to work for were located, and (2) very few LI firms interviewed me or gave me job offers. When I was a recent law school grad, I HAD to work in NYC because I did not own a car. Without a car - working in LI = pointless. Now that I am older, I have less patience for dealing with the NYC commute so will probably have to take a pay cut just to work closer to home in Nassau/Suffolk if my current firm were to disband, downsize, etc.
as to # 2 - I suspect that the people living further out from Ronky and commute to NYC do so because they want more house/space for reasonable price. This is especially true for families with 2,3 or 4 kids. Its a trade-off: commute an extra 30 min to Suffolk county for a 5 bedroom/3 bath home on a decent sized lot in Commack vs. living in a tight 3 bd/2 bath home in western Nassau because thats all they can afford. If only 1 parent works in Manhattan, its probably worth the sacrifice for them.
Unwholesome comments aside, your last 2 sentences basically answers the rest of your post. Taking care of a big house is a FT job that will consume the SAHW. Then there are other important non-house errands - especially when kids are involved which can also become another FT job. Put a positive spin on it. Having a more modest, conveniently located house/apartment will free up her time to work on the other chores and take a breather. It will also improve your health, financial condition and overall QOL. I agree with looking somewhere in Queens or the western border of Nassau.
That makes a lot of sense. The non-commuting (and possibly non-working) wife might be so excited about the idea of a bigger house, that she overlooks how much work it will take to maintain that house. She will then typically complain that the husband isn't doing his fair share of housework. But if he has a long commute and is forced to work a lot of overtime, and has a life that is nothing but commuting, working, and sleeping, you can't realistically expect him to help much with the housework, even if he wants to.
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BTW it won't be a slightly smaller house. It will be a MUCH smaller house/apt, but one you can reasonably afford.
But keep in mind that a MUCH smaller house/apt is not really a viable option if you have kids.
I agree wholeheartedly with your premise. Don't know why others on this thread were attacking you but there is something to be said for quality of life being an important factor when house shopping.
For me - as to # 1 - I was in the group that reluctantly had to work in NYC because (1) thats where most of the law firms I wanted to work for were located, and (2) very few LI firms interviewed me or gave me job offers. When I was a recent law school grad, I HAD to work in NYC because I did not own a car. Without a car - working in LI = pointless. Now that I am older, I have less patience for dealing with the NYC commute so will probably have to take a pay cut just to work closer to home in Nassau/Suffolk if my current firm were to disband, downsize, etc.
as to # 2 - I suspect that the people living further out from Ronky and commute to NYC do so because they want more house/space for reasonable price. This is especially true for families with 2,3 or 4 kids. Its a trade-off: commute an extra 30 min to Suffolk county for a 5 bedroom/3 bath home on a decent sized lot in Commack vs. living in a tight 3 bd/2 bath home in western Nassau because thats all they can afford. If only 1 parent works in Manhattan, its probably worth the sacrifice for them.
But is it worth it to the parent who has the long commute? It is not right for one spouse to bully the other spouse into a longer commute.
About the idea that the husband should let the wife have her way, there may be some merit to that idea, at least in some situations. I don't know if any studies have ever been done, but at least from my experience, in general, men tend to be more big picture oriented, and women tend to be more detail oriented. That is obviously not 100% true of every couple, but it is often true based on my experience. Also, neither is better or worse, since we need people to care about the big picture, and we need people to care about the details.
My point is that if a big picture oriented husband is married to a detail oriented wife, it makes sense for the husband to generally allow the wife to get her way. For example, the color of a wall is, to me, a small, mostly meaningless detail. I am not likely to care either way what color it is painted, but the right color would mean a lot to my wife. (this is just an example; I'm not saying it's true of my wife). In that case, it makes sense for the husband to allow the wife to choose what color the wall is painted. The husband won't notice or care. But the wife will become bitter and resentful if she doesn't get the color that she really wants.
However, the question of where to live is not such a case where the husband should always let the wife have her way. If the husband is commuting to NYC and the wife is not, and the wife wants to live in a bigger house further away from NYC, that is a case where the husband is making all of the sacrifices (the long commute), and the wife is getting all of the benefits (living in a bigger house that the husband will never spend time in other than to sleep).
The couple could possibly make a compromise, such as the husband enduring a longer commute so the wife can have a bigger house, but then they hire a landscaper to mow the lawn rather than expecting the husband to do it during his little free time, and the wife reduces her spending and buys fewer clothes and shoes so that they can afford the landscaper. However, they must agree to the compromise before buying the house. The husband cannot agree at first to mow the lawn himself, and then decide after a few months that he doesn't have the time to do so. By then, the wife will be used to her lifestyle where she can spend as much as she wants on clothes and shoes, and will be resentful that the husband is suddenly expecting her to scale back. They will need to start the compromise immediately, so the wife is used to having to conserve money in order to pay the landscaper. In the unlikely situation that the husband ends up having more time than expected, they can then decide what to do with it.
But the elephant in the room is inevitably caring for the house. You can compromise all you want but someone will have to take care of it. Set aside the lawn/landscaping (which in some cases costs thousands of $$$ to maintain), even houses in good condition need constant TLC whether it's cleaning dust, cleaning drains, plumbing, septic/sewer systems, insulation, windows etc. At least among people I know, everyone who owns a mcmansion spends tremendous amounts of time and often entire weekends working on something in the house. Seldom do they even have the time to read a good book or go out shopping. If the SAHW says she wants a big house, is she willing to put up with the rigorous upkeep requirements especially when there are kids (another job in and of itself)? If the husband is the sole breadwinner, it's likely he will need his time away from work to decompress so no energy to do his part in maintaining the place.
In Asia where I was based for many years, having a big house is important because it was a common practice for newlyweds to live first in their parents' houses/compounds. All the elite families had sprawling compounds inside gated subdivisions to house multiple family members. They had servants to maintain the properties. The implication of this of course is that males who came from families that owned big homes had better chances of finding wives. I don't think this is how it works in LI.
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Originally Posted by mitsguy2001
But keep in mind that a MUCH smaller house/apt is not really a viable option if you have kids.
My spouse and I lived in a 3BR/2BA 1200 sqft apartment in Kew Gardens with 2 kids for a while. It was manageable. Since we were both working, nobody had the time to maintain a house. In cases where the wife is SAH, she could bring the kids to the playground/park or B&N in colder days, or maybe one of the many afterschool activities.
My wife has a relative in California who owns a mcmansion. The kids are left to play videogames by themselves because the parent is too busy doing house maintenance chores.
Last edited by Forest_Hills_Daddy; 03-24-2013 at 05:20 PM..
But the elephant in the room is inevitably caring for the house. You can compromise all you want but someone will have to take care of it. Set aside the lawn/landscaping (which in some cases costs thousands of $$$ to maintain), even houses in good condition need constant TLC whether it's cleaning dust, cleaning drains, plumbing, septic/sewer systems, insulation, windows etc. At least among people I know, everyone who owns a mcmansion spends tremendous amounts of time and often entire weekends working on something in the house. Seldom do they even have the time to read a good book or go out shopping. If the SAHW says she wants a big house, is she willing to put up with the rigorous upkeep requirements especially when there are kids (another job in and of itself)? If the husband is the sole breadwinner, it's likely he will need his time away from work to decompress so no energy to do his part in maintaining the place.
In Asia where I was based for many years, having a big house is important because it was a common practice for newlyweds to live first in their parents' houses/compounds. All the elite families had sprawling compounds inside gated subdivisions to house multiple family members. They had servants to maintain the properties. The implication of this of course is that males who came from families that owned big homes had better chances of finding wives. I don't think this is how it works in LI.
My spouse and I lived in a 3BR/2BA 1200 sqft apartment in Kew Gardens with 2 kids for a while. It was manageable. Since we were both working, nobody had the time to maintain a house. In cases where the wife is SAH, she could bring the kids to the playground/park or B&N in colder days, or maybe one of the many afterschool activities.
My wife has a relative in California who owns a mcmansion. The kids are left to play videogames by themselves because the parent is too busy doing house maintenance chores.
Those are all excellent points. Like I said, the wife who is excited about a huge house tends to overlook how much time it will take to maintain that house. Or, she will expect her husband to help out, but not take into account that if he is always working and commuting, he literally won't have time to help out, even if he wants to.
I commute to the city 4 days a week, my husband works nearby in Happaugue and we have 2 small children. It is working for us, I am on the 6:13am express train from Kings Park to Penn it arrives at Penn at 7:20am. It's 1 hour 7 min and I think it's great. No transfer in Jamaica. I leave my office in midtown at 4pm and am on the 4:19pm express train home and I'm back at KP at 5:35pm and home by 5:45pm. It works for us and for me those particular trains are wonderful. There is even a 4:49 pm train arrives around 6pm which is express. By express, I mean no changing trains in Jamaica and it doesn't make every stop. I love working in NYC and for me it wouldn't pay to work near my home, I have 100% paid health benefits, work at a family friendly place, have been here 5 years and just negoiated a 4 day work week. My husband shares house/childcare duties and without him it wouldn't work, I don't believe that it's all HUSBANDS and woman wanting a huge house, I didn't want a huge house, we just moved from a 2 bedroom condo to Northport. I had a similar commute for many many years when we lived in NJ so maybe I'm used to it. I love what I do and love working, I also love my children too - maybe I'm one of those mom's that is against the norm, I busted my butt to get where I am in my career and I don't want to be one of those mom's who when their kids go to school full-time have nothing to do and college degrees that went down the drain - but I guess that's another topic. That is another reason I remain the one commuting.
I commute to the city 4 days a week, my husband works nearby in Happaugue and we have 2 small children. It is working for us, I am on the 6:13am express train from Kings Park to Penn it arrives at Penn at 7:20am. It's 1 hour 7 min and I think it's great. No transfer in Jamaica. I leave my office in midtown at 4pm and am on the 4:19pm express train home and I'm back at KP at 5:35pm and home by 5:45pm. It works for us and for me those particular trains are wonderful. There is even a 4:49 pm train arrives around 6pm which is express. By express, I mean no changing trains in Jamaica and it doesn't make every stop. I love working in NYC and for me it wouldn't pay to work near my home, I have 100% paid health benefits, work at a family friendly place, have been here 5 years and just negoiated a 4 day work week. My husband shares house/childcare duties and without him it wouldn't work, I don't believe that it's all HUSBANDS and woman wanting a huge house, I didn't want a huge house, we just moved from a 2 bedroom condo to Northport. I had a similar commute for many many years when we lived in NJ so maybe I'm used to it. I love what I do and love working, I also love my children too - maybe I'm one of those mom's that is against the norm, I busted my butt to get where I am in my career and I don't want to be one of those mom's who when their kids go to school full-time have nothing to do and college degrees that went down the drain - but I guess that's another topic. That is another reason I remain the one commuting.
Keep in mind that works because you are working 4 days a week, 8 AM to 4 PM, which is basically a part time job. You are lucky to have a part time job that pays benefits. Most part time jobs do not pay benefits. If you had to work 5 days a week from 7 AM to 5 PM, do you agree that your life would be a lot more difficult, even if your husband was able to do all of the housework and childcare tasks?
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, your last 2 sentences basically answers the rest of your post. Taking care of a big house is a FT job that will consume the SAHW. Then there are other important non-house errands - especially when kids are involved which can also become another FT job. Put a positive spin on it. Having a more modest, conveniently located house/apartment will free up her time to work on the other chores and take a breather. It will also improve your health, financial condition and overall QOL. I agree with looking somewhere in Queens or the western border of Nassau.
