Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I think the point is that there shouldn't be 4-5% increases in this economy. When hiring starts picking up and median income on LI starts going up, then teachers should be getting raises. There is not a single teacher that I know who would leave their job if their salary was frozen for 2 years. This the baseline that all school district contract negotiations should start with...no raises for 2 years. It's not unreasonable. The next thing is to lower the steps that determine how quickly pay rises. After that, strategically get those 30year+ people to retire because they are clearing 120K..you can hire a new teacher at 45K and save money.
It doesn't start with voting budgets down. The damage is already done by then. It's about contract negotiations.
Having worked all my life in the private sector, primarily for publicly traded companies, I have never seen the practices there that exist in the public school system. We were lucky if the growth of departmental budgets was allowed to keep pace with inflation. More than likely, we would be asked to cut budgets year-over-year. We were lucky if our raises kept pace with inflation. No manager, from the first rung to the CEO, was ever allowed to take the summer off, or bank vacation or sick days. Our share of health insurance premiums would typically rise faster than inflation. No one ever had any job protection. And this was in successful companies. The administrators and teachers live in an entirely different world.
Labor does not have to be this costly if it is managed properly and if school boards would negotiate hard at contract time. Instead, school boards negotiate and sign contracts in secret, using our money. They're not transparent about the negotiations because they would be embarrassed to make some of the proposals in public, in front of the taxpayers.
I would love to see board negotiators say to the teachers: "No raises for the next three years, no more banking vacation or sick days and you'll now pay 30% of your health premiums. Take it or leave it." But we'll never see that because Little Johnny's school year would be disrupted. Instead, the money that might buy Little Johnny a laptop that could change his life will get eaten up by the administrators' and teachers' ultra-rich benefits packages.
our town passed by 1000 votes and it also stated the teachers and staff have a pay freeze. Regardless, not passing these budgets isn't really going to fix the problem. Tired of being stuck without a real solution. These teachers would not leave even if we put our foot down about raises. If they did leave, there's many waiting in line to take their place, also because of positives other than salary. We talk endlessly about why it's happening (school boards) but what do we do about it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by longislander2
Labor does not have to be this costly if it is managed properly and if school boards would negotiate hard at contract time. Instead, school boards negotiate and sign contracts in secret, using our money. They're not transparent about the negotiations because they would be embarrassed to make some of the proposals in public, in front of the taxpayers.
If it is our money, why is it ok for them not to disclose any of that? Is there a reason we're taking it lying down?
Having worked all my life in the private sector, primarily for publicly traded companies, I have never seen the practices there that exist in the public school system. We were lucky if the growth of departmental budgets was allowed to keep pace with inflation. More than likely, we would be asked to cut budgets year-over-year. We were lucky if our raises kept pace with inflation. No manager, from the first rung to the CEO, was ever allowed to take the summer off, or bank vacation or sick days. Our share of health insurance premiums would typically rise faster than inflation. No one ever had any job protection. And this was in successful companies. The administrators and teachers live in an entirely different world.
Labor does not have to be this costly if it is managed properly and if school boards would negotiate hard at contract time. Instead, school boards negotiate and sign contracts in secret, using our money. They're not transparent about the negotiations because they would be embarrassed to make some of the proposals in public, in front of the taxpayers.
I would love to see board negotiators say to the teachers: "No raises for the next three years, no more banking vacation or sick days and you'll now pay 30% of your health premiums. Take it or leave it." But we'll never see that because Little Johnny's school year would be disrupted. Instead, the money that might buy Little Johnny a laptop that could change his life will get eaten up by the administrators' and teachers' ultra-rich benefits packages.
I agree with most of what you say until the last sentence. My kids (luckily all good) elementary school teachers have been worth much more than a laptop ever could be, imo..ten times over. My son loves going to school and I've seen remarkable progress in all areas. He already has a laptop available to him, and computer programs and educational games will never replace hands on instruction from an experienced individual..this is the same for MANY things, not just reading and math...whether it be learning to play the piano, hit a tennis ball, or fix a car.
Regardless, 11K in taxes for a high ranch in Smithtown where the median family income is 105K, isn't sustainable.
Really?? While I, and a lot of others are taking pay CUTS just to keep their jobs? Along with rising medical I pay, but teachers/admins DONT pay? Gimmie a break!
Many districts have teachers/admins paying 20% of their healthcare costs. That's reasonable and I believe every district should follow that standard. Still medical will continue to rise, both in public and private sectors.
What is uncontrollable is the contributions given for a lifetime to educators who never paid a dime.
As I've brought up time and time again- the real financial mismanagement happened over 40 years ago.
The costs to pay off Tier I & II (ending hire dates 1976) are absolutely brutal. No one today can change that... hell if the school systems closed down you'd be surprised STILL how much money would have to be collected in taxes just to pay off those debts to TRS.
Pay cuts are a curiosity. Teachers aren't teaching less students or working less hours or producing less 'profit', so there's no reason for their salaries to be cut. The economy sucks, but inflation still is taking place. Dollar buys you less and less. Your business is making you take a cut because they are either making less money, or distributing more to the top (this is the biggest problem in the USA today). This isn't the case in Education- the quality of each educator I think is high, however obviously programs being cut means exposure is missing which to me is quite awful.
People from LI need to understand that other metro areas may pay their teachers 10-20% or so less, but their taxes may be 50% lower... there's obviously much more to this disparity than just one figure.
You will never solve your problem by trying to curb salaries 1% here and there. I'm all for anyone who wants to defeat their public school budget if they believe good reasoning for it, however it isn't going to bring your taxes down ever.
Many districts have teachers/admins paying 20% of their healthcare costs. That's reasonable and I believe every district should follow that standard. Still medical will continue to rise, both in public and private sectors.
What is uncontrollable is the contributions given for a lifetime to educators who never paid a dime.
As I've brought up time and time again- the real financial mismanagement happened over 40 years ago.
The costs to pay off Tier I & II (ending hire dates 1976) are absolutely brutal. No one today can change that... hell if the school systems closed down you'd be surprised STILL how much money would have to be collected in taxes just to pay off those debts to TRS.
Pay cuts are a curiosity. Teachers aren't teaching less students or working less hours or producing less 'profit', so there's no reason for their salaries to be cut. The economy sucks, but inflation still is taking place. Dollar buys you less and less. Your business is making you take a cut because they are either making less money, or distributing more to the top (this is the biggest problem in the USA today). This isn't the case in Education- the quality of each educator I think is high, however obviously programs being cut means exposure is missing which to me is quite awful.
People from LI need to understand that other metro areas may pay their teachers 10-20% or so less, but their taxes may be 50% lower... there's obviously much more to this disparity than just one figure.
You will never solve your problem by trying to curb salaries 1% here and there. I'm all for anyone who wants to defeat their public school budget if they believe good reasoning for it, however it isn't going to bring your taxes down ever.
Yup...won't bring taxes down....BUT will help them from soaring as they do year after year. I'm guessing you and/or family are teachers.
They can cut headcount..... but that creates unemployment payments.
They can cut salaries, if..... both sides agree to it, since they are contractual.
Pension % is controlled by the state, nothing you can do about that locally. Tell Albany to stop shafting us for their mismanagement of the funds.
Albany's 'mismanagement' can't be fixed. All pension systems are essentially based on a scheme of infinite growth. So long as the schools keep growing new employees can fund the original employees retirements. With stagnant growth now and poor returns in the market, the school districts and ultimately the taxpayers are ending up making up the differences.
The only way you can cut 'headcount' anymore is when teachers (or admin) die.
The other solution to the pension crisis facing NYS is simply hyperinflation.
COLA and inflation in NYS retirement systems can only be maxed out at 3% per year. If the dollar inflates to more than that, the district is ultimately getting off the hook for less.
I don't think there has ever been an instance of hyperinflation in which a government hasn't nearly showed signs of collapsing, perhaps save Italy and the Lyra pre-Euro... but I'd say they're not out of the red zone yet.
Real world Albany fixes-
1. NYS Income Tax Pension checks.
2. Require pension checks to be signed & picked up in NYS, or charge hefty administrative fees for those who leave NYS.
3. Ask former educators to charitably return 1% of their pension annually to the school districts they either worked for or lived in to help keep the system afloat. Make this a quality deduction program with public awareness for how good they had it, and how many students and teachers today suffer at instability.
4. Require school boards to have a public hearing prior to hiring any retired tier 1-4 educator. These employees are still eligible to "double dip" meaning collect a pension and a paycheck or at one point collect 2-3 pension checks. An understandable practice when there were few specialists in great desire, however with unemployment as it is- this practice is done more as a good ol' boys networking rather than based on competency.
Yup...won't bring taxes down....BUT will help them from soaring as they do year after year. I'm guessing you and/or family are teachers.
I often dabble in the education market, but receive zero public funding. I am not a teacher.
I have no family members who are teachers, and at this point no family members who work in public sector at all.
I don't sit on any school boards right now, but I likely will one day because it is an area of expertise of mine. I would likely be pro-education and educator, but I'd favor number of staff over salary.
You need to read more thoroughly. Nothing will stop your taxes from escalating. Your taxes are based on how much the county/districts/state/etc. needs, and not the other way around. You need major cuts in government to fix a system like that.
Slashing teacher salaries 30% might bring your taxes down.
Slashing teacher salaries 15% might, just might, keep your taxes level.
These are both unrealistic expectations for people who are doing their jobs.
In 2008 when some districts took a pay freeze (though step increases were given) and slashed 5% staff, and cut corners, the tax levy STILL went up.
Obviously teachers making more is throwing water on a sinking ship, but cutting down other people's pay because you simply don't want them to make as much also seems like a bit of a crab mentality.
Slashing teacher salaries 15% might, just might, keep your taxes level.
These are both unrealistic expectations for people who are doing their jobs.
That may be a good start. My IT company of which most are high-skill positions took 15% cuts even though the company makes billions in profit every single year. They didn't pay us well to begin with and these cuts were "necessary" to keep stockholders happy and the bottom line looking good. Why did we sit there and take it rather than just leave? Because everything else about the job is good - we like the job, so we stay. Teachers have even more incentive with the ease at which they could be replaced, and not to mention the kids they get to help everyday. Well, for 9 months of the year.
If they don't want to take what everyone else is taking, let them find another line of work that is just as cushy and rewarding. Give them that choice and you can guess what they'll do in the end.
Despite the constant threat of layoffs and outsourcing, I have remained anti-union. It's completely appalling that non-profit institutions who's purpose is clearly defined would keep unions and choose to hold people hostage with dollar & benefit requirements.
Last edited by ovi8; 05-23-2013 at 04:55 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
