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Old 09-05-2013, 12:23 PM
 
147 posts, read 542,376 times
Reputation: 80

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkingElsewhere View Post
Calling me a little girl with your insulting and immature comeback. Are you aware of the COL on LI? It is amongst the highest in the country. You don't even know my SO and I prospects, to have children, save for our children's expenses and college education, to provide some help for my SO's father since he's in poor health - not to buy freaking designer handbags and take luxury cruise vacations. Please, I shop in outlets and sales racks. The most luxurious vacation my SO went on this year was to a poor village in India. You think anyone making $200k on LI is automatically filthy rich? Maybe if you're single with no children, but you just disregarded the fact that some people have children and other family to provide for. Even some of your fellow posters here have stated that's hard for a family to get by with six figures on LI these days.

We were looking at ~$700k house in Port Washington with 3 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms if we stayed here, yup sounds like a real McMansion! (We like PW because its near the water and its diverse for LI standards) Btw, we're not moving back to California or Colorado because we want a cheap "McMansion." In addition our money to go a little further we like the lifestyle, amenities, and weather out there better.

Where did I say I was "ungreatful" about our income? All I said in the later post that $200k doesn't go as far as you like on LI if you're planning a family or having to help care for other members. I've seen it with my brother, he's an ER physician and makes more than we do. Whatever, I guess trying doing the best for my family is my first world problem. Taxes and public unions are yours, we all have them!
Sorry but if you read back what you wrote, it doesn't present you in a good light. Instead of complaining about not being able to afford a $700k house why don't you look at houses in the $400-500k range. You stated you shop in outlets and sales racks but you can still spend a lot of money buying designer stuff at Woodbury commons outlets and Nordstrom Racks. Trying to do the best for your family does not mean that you are entitled to have a $700k house as your first home and stop comparing yourself to your brother. My 2 brothers work for a hedge fund and the other for goldman sachs. I don't compare my income to theirs....

Last edited by manhasset hills1; 09-05-2013 at 12:46 PM..
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Old 09-05-2013, 12:34 PM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
16,408 posts, read 33,240,130 times
Reputation: 7338
Quote:
Originally Posted by mongoose65 View Post
You just have a non-answer for everything. Then you apply a non-sensical straw argument to bolster it. For one, who the hell cares about S. Carolina in this discussion?! S.C. could NEVER have more businesses because it has a fraction of the population and work force. It is however expanding while we contract.

The transportation point is idiotic. We pay the same transportation rates as everywhere else and have some of the largest ports in the world. I handle logistics. No one pays a premium to get goods on Long Island due to trans costs. This isn't the Canary Islands or Fiji. We pay more because of TAXES. Businesses leave because of taxes and adversarial zoning laws by local govts. We had one of the largest defense, aircraft and aerospace manufacturing bases and NONE had issue one with transportation costs. They downsized due to economic factors or MOVED due to too high operating costs ie LABOR, TAXES and UTILITIES! Period. I'm amazed the whatever profession'd S.O. of a VA doctor has any non-google insight on logistic costs but it's clear you have no qualms about pulling erroneous nonsense out of your rear end.

I can't believe you made the incredible finding that you'd save money buying a $450k house instead of a $700k one. Wow. Your one cogent point.
Your whole second paragraph: Exactly! I couldn't have said it better myself! She said we have no railroad infrastructure? What does she think ... we're as far from NYC as Hawaii is from California?

Underlined: Probably some bored hospital human resources assistant with a "masters in health" playing "economist troll" or something. She reminds me of someone ...
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Old 09-05-2013, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Nassau County
5,301 posts, read 4,738,942 times
Reputation: 3984
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but View Post
We had Grumman and aerospace industries for years. We have extensive rails and tunnels connecting us to the mainland that can carry heavy freight. Ever hear of the LIRR? They use them too.

Guess what drove our aerospace business away? Unfriendly conditions for business, chief among them high taxes and high utility costs due to runaway public sector union personnel costs. Yeah your favorite cops were among the culprits.

NYS's new tax breaks are not enough to bring back what was lost.

I gotta dispute you on this one. The main aerospace industry on LI (ie Grumman and Fairchild Republic) left (or went out of buisness in FR's case) because the cold war ended and the contracts dried up in the early 90's. The entire aerospace industry nationwide at the time went through a major contraction. It really had nothing to do with property taxes and utility costs on LI. Even Northrop Grumman recently moving those jobs out of bethpage to San Diego and FL were due to a corporate reorg to move the engineers and labs closer to the manufacturing facitilies, not because of local cost.

Now other buisness areas (like arrow electronics etc) I am in full agreement with you.
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Old 09-05-2013, 01:55 PM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
16,408 posts, read 33,240,130 times
Reputation: 7338
Quote:
Originally Posted by peconic117 View Post
I gotta dispute you on this one. The main aerospace industry on LI (ie Grumman and Fairchild Republic) left (or went out of buisness in FR's case) because the cold war ended and the contracts dried up in the early 90's. The entire aerospace industry nationwide at the time went through a major contraction. It really had nothing to do with property taxes and utility costs on LI. Even Northrop Grumman recently moving those jobs out of bethpage to San Diego and FL were due to a corporate reorg to move the engineers and labs closer to the manufacturing facitilies, not because of local cost.

Now other buisness areas (like arrow electronics etc) I am in full agreement with you.
Funny how Aerospace is and has been going strong in places like Seattle and many other areas continually. How come all that cold war trouble didn't destroy those areas but totally knocked LI out of the box? It isn't telling the whole story with that explanation.

Yeah but NG sure lied to Schumer when they promised to keep the jobs here and took his tax cut package, didn't they?

And why did they suddenly have a drastic need to put the engineers and labs "closer" to the manufacturing facilities (located conveniently in more tax and cost friendly areas than LI) ... especially in the era of the internet?
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Old 09-05-2013, 03:52 PM
 
639 posts, read 1,120,584 times
Reputation: 726
Quote:
Originally Posted by mongoose65 View Post
You just have a non-answer for everything. Then you apply a non-sensical straw argument to bolster it. For one, who the hell cares about S. Carolina in this discussion?! S.C. could NEVER have more businesses because it has a fraction of the population and work force. It is however expanding while we contract.

The transportation point is idiotic. We pay the same transportation rates as everywhere else and have some of the largest ports in the world. I handle logistics. No one pays a premium to get goods on Long Island due to trans costs. This isn't the Canary Islands or Fiji. We pay more because of TAXES. Businesses leave because of taxes and adversarial zoning laws by local govts. We had one of the largest defense, aircraft and aerospace manufacturing bases and NONE had issue one with transportation costs. They downsized due to economic factors or MOVED due to too high operating costs ie LABOR, TAXES and UTILITIES! Period. I'm amazed the whatever profession'd S.O. of a VA doctor has any non-google insight on logistic costs but it's clear you have no qualms about pulling erroneous nonsense out of your rear end.

I can't believe you made the incredible finding that you'd save money buying a $450k house instead of a $700k one. Wow. Your one cogent point.
You're right. I know nothing of economics. Everything I say is just speculation and trolling..oh but wait that sounds like 95% of CD! As in the bold, thank you for proving my point since posters here think property taxes are the sole reason why LI doesn't attract business.

Now since your the expert on logistics, transportation, and economics I want to hear it.

Why is food and other personal good cheaper where I lived in Upstate NY that LI? Where I lived many people paid $10k or more in property taxes. Yup, sounds like a real sole correlation between more expensive goods and high property taxes. Are you also going to tell me that the reason why fruits and veggies are more expensive in LI than California is because of property taxes??!

We all know how much you dislike LI only being a bedroom community. But lets be real here. If an industry decides to establish a location in the NYC "suburbs." Why should the corporate executive decide to open it on LI rather than NJ or Westchester which are more conveinetly located on mainland USA whereas LI probably relies on bridge tolls and boats. Then again, I'm probably totally wrong since you're the logistic expert who knows everything from the everyday work of a LI cop to exactly what the VA is like. Oh yeah that's right, it must be because almost every single person on LI is a NIMBY.

Plus nobody is going to be willing to relocate to LI, if companies if they need to recruit people from elsewhere for certain positions. It's full of too much traffic, congestion, and lacks good outdoor activities like other states. Nobody from outside LI likes it here, even people from Buffalo think it's a craphole.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but View Post
No, I don't think a DINK couple bringing in over $200K household income is FILTHY RICH from personal experience. I notice you're not crying about student loans. Guess mommy and daddy took care of that for you and your doctor brother you keep bragging about. Get help with the house too if you must show off on the North Shore right NOW even though you can't afford it NOW instead of buying a starter home like most young couples do and waiting to move up to a more expensive neighborhood later.
Are you kidding? We all have quite a bit in student loans that we're paying off. I don't know anyone who has parents who pay for medical school, unless their parents are millionaires.


Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but View Post
Underlined: Probably some bored hospital human resources assistant with a "masters in health" playing "economist troll" or something. She reminds me of someone ...
Well since you seem to be very knowledgeable cops and unions, I'm surprised you don't know more about the health job market. LOL you think someone with a masters can land a job as an administrative assistant position at a healthcare facility. They only hire bachelors or less. You can tell this "friend I remind you of" that they can do way better than a human resources assistant with their "health masters".

Since you enjoy bashing me, how about you just assume that I'm a CNA rather than a "human resources assistant." Or even better, since I don't get angry over LI police salaries, lets assume that I'm an underpaid CNA wanting to be a grossly overpaid police officer in the SCPD since it requires no college education and skills. That way my SO and I can more than double our income, live in a North Shore McMansion, and buy all the designer goods and luxury cars we want!

Last edited by ThinkingElsewhere; 09-05-2013 at 04:32 PM..
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Old 09-05-2013, 04:06 PM
 
639 posts, read 1,120,584 times
Reputation: 726
Quote:
Originally Posted by manhasset hills1 View Post
Sorry but if you read back what you wrote, it doesn't present you in a good light. Instead of complaining about not being able to afford a $700k house why don't you look at houses in the $400-500k range. You stated you shop in outlets and sales racks but you can still spend a lot of money buying designer stuff at Woodbury commons outlets and Nordstrom Racks. Trying to do the best for your family does not mean that you are entitled to have a $700k house as your first home and stop comparing yourself to your brother. My 2 brothers work for a hedge fund and the other for goldman sachs. I don't compare my income to theirs....
I appreciate you giving a civil response on this board. We want our first home to be our only home until we retired. We've moved around a lot and would like to finally settle for good, until retirement in the distant future. We actually thought about getting a starter house if we stayed on LI, but in the end we wasn't worth it and better to move elsewhere for us. I'm also not comparing myself to my brother in a negative light, he deserves all he gets from his hard work. All I was saying is that he's living a modest lifestyle in an average home, despite that he makes more than we do.
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Old 09-05-2013, 04:52 PM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
16,408 posts, read 33,240,130 times
Reputation: 7338
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkingElsewhere View Post
I appreciate you giving a civil response on this board. We want our first home to be our only home until we retired. We've moved around a lot and would like to finally settle for good, until retirement in the distant future. We actually thought about getting a starter house if we stayed on LI, but in the end we wasn't worth it and better to move elsewhere for us. I'm also not comparing myself to my brother in a negative light, he deserves all he gets from his hard work. All I was saying is that he's living a modest lifestyle in an average home, despite that he makes more than we do.
LMAO! So you NEED a $700K home on the North Shore you cannot afford RIGHT NOW because you cannot bear to saddle up a moving truck once more before you retire!

You're gonna retire with only 3 BRs and 2 BAs? LMAO! Right!

The stench of horse puckey is wafting through the screen!

People put on your hip waders! The lame BS is filling up the forum!

Newsflash: People who call a $700K house in Port Washington their "starter home" generally retire from a $2-3M home in a place like Sands Point or Muttontown! Don't pee on our collective leg and tell us it's raining!
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Old 09-05-2013, 04:58 PM
 
2,630 posts, read 4,986,029 times
Reputation: 1776
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkingElsewhere View Post
You're right. I know nothing of economics. Everything I say is just speculation and trolling
Exactly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkingElsewhere View Post
posters here think property taxes are the sole reason why LI doesn't attract business.
No they don't. You just like to argue with yourself and it helps you to put words in their mouths or misinterpret what they say. Many have said over and over labor and especially utilities are a factor and you ignore it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkingElsewhere View Post
Now since your the expert on logistics, transportation, and economics I want to hear it. Why is food and other personal good cheaper where I lived in Upstate NY that LI?
Simple. Lower cost of living. Market upstate wouldn't bear LI or NYC retail prices. Economics 101. Don't have to be an expert.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkingElsewhere View Post
Where I lived many people paid $10k or more in property taxes.
No they didn't for the same size or valued property as LI. If so, tell me where. Let's hear it. Saratoga or Albany a remote MAYBE. Most everywhere else outside of upper Westchester, LI or Monmouth in Jersey the taxes are significantly lower.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkingElsewhere View Post
Are you also going to tell me that the reason why fruits and veggies are more expensive in LI than California is because of property taxes??!
Not sure that they are. Oranges and lemons in Florida and California are often way pricier and lower quality than here. They are a major export and part of their local GDP. The best get shipped, the average stuff stays local. In fact most of the better lemons in Cali and Texas are grown in Mexico. Maybe that's why they're cheaper (if they are). Economics 101 semester 2. NY produces a lot of milk and yogurt. Do you find our prices much cheaper because we make it here? Everything costs more due to high property taxes. Everything. High taxes increase the cost of doing business. They eat profit margins. High taxes sap consumer buying power, except in cases where it's reinvested in stimulus. This is the age old supply side economics debate that's been raging since Reagan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkingElsewhere View Post
We all know how much you dislike LI only being a bedroom community.
Wrong. I don't dislike it. I'm perfectly fine with it. If it were sustainable, but it isn't. Especially in light of the layers of local govts, the breadth of union power, the downsizing and restructuring of wall street, the decimation of aerospace and defense spending and the slowing of nutraceuticals. Only on LI can you get blood from a stone and the taxpayers are the stone. Even saps like us can only pay at the altar for so long until it becomes more practical to seek alternatives. Businesses just do it more quickly. Margins affected? Bye bye jobs. No muss, no fuss. We have to subsidize Canon so they will stay and pay people to subsidize the cop and teacher salary and benefit boom. WE pay at both ends. Getting it yet? Of course not. Blah, blah, blah. Tell me about the price of cheese in Wisconsin and how South Carolina pays it's barbers xxx $. Hippitty hoopla.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkingElsewhere View Post
NJ or Westchester which are more conveinetly located on mainland USA
Double WOW. You are the absolute 1st person I've ever heard imply LI was not part of "mainland USA!" Skipped over sublime and went straight to ridiculous on that one! Guess Manhattan isn't mainland USA either. It's Taiwan and LI is Oahu.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkingElsewhere View Post
Plus nobody is going to be willing to relocate to LI, if companies if they need to recruit people from elsewhere for certain positions. It's full of too much traffic, congestion, and lacks good outdoor activities like other states. Nobody from outside LI likes it here, even people from Buffalo think it's a craphole.
Wow. Super daft. They don't come to LI because the cost of doing business is too high. Period. LI is still a sought after destination due to proximity to NYC, beach and water activities and schools. If it weren't we'd be in worse shape than we are. I know a dozen people from Buffalo and all think LI is great but would never live here, why? Here it comes.....THE TAXES (and to be fair, the cost of houses). But thanks for pulling that Buffalo public opinion "fact" out of your keester.

Last edited by mongoose65; 09-05-2013 at 05:08 PM..
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Old 09-05-2013, 06:17 PM
 
Location: Nassau County
5,301 posts, read 4,738,942 times
Reputation: 3984
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but View Post
Funny how Aerospace is and has been going strong in places like Seattle and many other areas continually. How come all that cold war trouble didn't destroy those areas but totally knocked LI out of the box? It isn't telling the whole story with that explanation.

Yeah but NG sure lied to Schumer when they promised to keep the jobs here and took his tax cut package, didn't they?

And why did they suddenly have a drastic need to put the engineers and labs "closer" to the manufacturing facilities (located conveniently in more tax and cost friendly areas than LI) ... especially in the era of the internet?
You are referring to Boeing in Seattle which has a huge commercial aircraft buisness (Grumman and Fairchild was almost all defense) that is how they weathered the storm. Despite this they laid off thousands in the early 90s from their defense sector as did almost all the aerospace defense contractors. Other companies folded or merged to survive. In addition Grumman properties were leased from the US navy, (they were naval reserve stations on paper) they had huge tax breaks. Grumman closing the calverton facility and most of Bethpage was the result of the work drying up. It wasn't moved to some place cheaper to save property tax money and utility bills which had virtually zero to do with the death of the industry here.


NG did pull a fast one on Schumer no denying that (and may very well pay a price for that one day), the CEO re-orged the entire company several other facilities in other lower cost states were moved too. Also FL is cheaper but is San Diego?? Does it really save them that much to move from one super expensive area to another? That shows how little it had to do with operating costs here.

Last edited by peconic117; 09-05-2013 at 06:36 PM..
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Old 09-05-2013, 06:32 PM
 
Location: Long Island
57,061 posts, read 26,024,198 times
Reputation: 15526
These discussions always head towards a bad economy on LI, we already know that businesses leave for several reasons. I don't think we will ever come close to Detroit but there are similarities, loss of business increases to civil servants as if it was 1980 with no concessions. Detroit lost thousands of resident and their tax base yet continued to operate in the same manner for decades, LI has lost many businesses the last 20 years but continues with escalating contracts and pensions of civil servants.

We are not going back to where we were something needs to change with the mindset of entitlement to civil servants, this is going to be an issue for decades to come. Two of the wealthiest counties in the US and both with budget deficits along with many of the villages, pretty obvious we have a problem.
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