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I have no idea where you get this "self-martyrdom" idea from, when I am choosing what is best for me. Quite the opposite, to be honest.
I don't mean to imply that people who choose to work in the city even when they have job opportunities on Long Island to be a "money-grubbing family-hater". If that works for them, then fine. I, to be honest, cannot understand why anyone would voluntarily choose that lifestyle if they had other choices. But if it works for them, then good for them. Right now, we're lucky we have choices. But if Long Island continues its decline, we might lose that choice, which is a shame.
Again with the false dichotomy - plenty of people have jobs in NYC with reasonable hours, that allow them to afford to live in a commuting distance that is comfortable for them. It's not "work on LI and have better hours and a shorter commute but make less money" vs. "work in NYC for a little more money and only have time to work and sleep." I work in an industry where my hours would be the same on LI, so I choose to commute for an extra half hour each day so I can make nearly twice as much for the same amount of time spent at work. I have former coworkers (from the job I used to work at on LI) who have left LI jobs for NYC jobs because the NYC jobs were actually more flexible and offered better hours. There's no one homogenous experience shared by everyone who happens to work in NYC, so it's both ignorant and offensive when you post things like "I cannot understand why anyone would choose THAT lifestyle" - what lifestyle are you even talking about?
Stop denigrating others and making up fairy stories about what working in NYC is like based on some Wall Street movie you watched in 1987 to make yourself feel better about your own limited prospects, please.
Again with the false dichotomy - plenty of people have jobs in NYC with reasonable hours, that allow them to afford to live in a commuting distance that is comfortable for them. It's not "work on LI and have better hours and a shorter commute but make less money" vs. "work in NYC for a little more money and only have time to work and sleep." I work in an industry where my hours would be the same on LI, so I choose to commute for an extra half hour each day so I can make nearly twice as much for the same amount of time spent at work. I have former coworkers (from the job I used to work at on LI) who have left LI jobs for NYC jobs because the NYC jobs were actually more flexible and offered better hours. There's no one homogenous experience shared by everyone who happens to work in NYC, so it's both ignorant and offensive when you post things like "I cannot understand why anyone would choose THAT lifestyle" - what lifestyle are you even talking about?
Stop denigrating others and making up fairy stories about what working in NYC is like based on some Wall Street movie you watched in 1987 to make yourself feel better about your own limited prospects, please.
I'm basing this on actual people that I know working at engineering firms in NYC. It is not based on fairy tale stories, nor is it based on the Wall Street movie.
I think it may have to do with what field that one is in. Unfortunately, the field that I am in has a very low profit margin, since the firm is competing for government contracts. Due to the low profit margin, it makes it very hard for firms in NYC to afford the high cost of operations in NYC, such as the high rent. That means that they are forced to understaff the offices, and expect everyone to work extreme hours. It also means that they cannot afford high enough salaries for someone to afford to buy a 3 bedroom house in a good school district in or near NYC, which is what most people with kids want. Therefore, at least in my field, firms in NYC disproportionately attract employees who are single by choice, or who may be married but don't plan to ever have kids, or who are divorced and are the non-custodial parent (and the long hours and long commutes often lead to divorce). The other option is to commute from Mastic or Shirley to the city, but that is also a more appealing option to people who are single by choice, married but don't plan to ever have kids, or are divorced and are the non-custodial parent, given that it means your life is just commuting, working, and sleeping.
I think most other posters here are in fields with higher profit margins, where firms in NYC can afford to properly staff the office, and can afford to pay employees enough to live in the city or in western Nassau county, and can afford to offer decent health insurance and give decent holidays and vacation time.
I think that our education system focuses too much on choosing majors based on academic interests. Unfortunately, in most jobs, we never use anything we learned in college, but our majors often pigeon hole us into jobs. It would make more sense for people to choose their careers (and majors) based on what field is hot in the area where they choose to live. In my case, since my family is on Long Island, and I consider proximity to them more improtant than anything else, rather than majoring in engineering, I should have chosen a field that was stronger in Long Island and NYC.
I'm basing this on actual people that I know working at engineering firms in NYC. It is not based on fairy tale stories, nor is it based on the Wall Street movie.
I think it may have to do with what field that one is in. Unfortunately, the field that I am in has a very low profit margin, since the firm is competing for government contracts. Due to the low profit margin, it makes it very hard for firms in NYC to afford the high cost of operations in NYC, such as the high rent. That means that they are forced to understaff the offices, and expect everyone to work extreme hours. It also means that they cannot afford high enough salaries for someone to afford to buy a 3 bedroom house in a good school district in or near NYC, which is what most people with kids want. Therefore, at least in my field, firms in NYC disproportionately attract employees who are single by choice, or who may be married but don't plan to ever have kids, or who are divorced and are the non-custodial parent (and the long hours and long commutes often lead to divorce). The other option is to commute from Mastic or Shirley to the city, but that is also a more appealing option to people who are single by choice, married but don't plan to ever have kids, or are divorced and are the non-custodial parent, given that it means your life is just commuting, working, and sleeping.
I think most other posters here are in fields with higher profit margins, where firms in NYC can afford to properly staff the office, and can afford to pay employees enough to live in the city or in western Nassau county, and can afford to offer decent health insurance and give decent holidays and vacation time.
I think that our education system focuses too much on choosing majors based on academic interests. Unfortunately, in most jobs, we never use anything we learned in college, but our majors often pigeon hole us into jobs. It would make more sense for people to choose their careers (and majors) based on what field is hot in the area where they choose to live. In my case, since my family is on Long Island, and I consider proximity to them more improtant than anything else, rather than majoring in engineering, I should have chosen a field that was stronger in Long Island and NYC.
You're always dancing around with this.
Tell us, once and for all, what is the magical NYC salary amount needed to make it all right to work in NYC so the person with a family can live in a three-bedroom house in a good school district and does not have to live in the S. Bronx or commute in from Shirley or Mastic?
PS: Also assume the time off, benefits, work hours, etc., were also to your liking and not an obstacle.
I'm basing this on actual people that I know working at engineering firms in NYC. It is not based on fairy tale stories, nor is it based on the Wall Street movie.
I think it may have to do with what field that one is in. Unfortunately, the field that I am in has a very low profit margin, since the firm is competing for government contracts. Due to the low profit margin, it makes it very hard for firms in NYC to afford the high cost of operations in NYC, such as the high rent. That means that they are forced to understaff the offices, and expect everyone to work extreme hours. It also means that they cannot afford high enough salaries for someone to afford to buy a 3 bedroom house in a good school district in or near NYC, which is what most people with kids want. Therefore, at least in my field, firms in NYC disproportionately attract employees who are single by choice, or who may be married but don't plan to ever have kids, or who are divorced and are the non-custodial parent (and the long hours and long commutes often lead to divorce). The other option is to commute from Mastic or Shirley to the city, but that is also a more appealing option to people who are single by choice, married but don't plan to ever have kids, or are divorced and are the non-custodial parent, given that it means your life is just commuting, working, and sleeping.
I think most other posters here are in fields with higher profit margins, where firms in NYC can afford to properly staff the office, and can afford to pay employees enough to live in the city or in western Nassau county, and can afford to offer decent health insurance and give decent holidays and vacation time.
I think that our education system focuses too much on choosing majors based on academic interests. Unfortunately, in most jobs, we never use anything we learned in college, but our majors often pigeon hole us into jobs. It would make more sense for people to choose their careers (and majors) based on what field is hot in the area where they choose to live. In my case, since my family is on Long Island, and I consider proximity to them more improtant than anything else, rather than majoring in engineering, I should have chosen a field that was stronger in Long Island and NYC.
ALL of this is specific to YOUR chosen field, and has nothing to do with anyone else's experience with working in NYC, so it's pretty ignorant and/or insulting (ignorant if you just didn't realize that basically no other field is like yours, insulting if you did) of you to make nasty comments about "people who would choose THAT lifestyle" and to accuse them of not caring about their families.
For you, personally, it may not make sense to work in NYC - as I've said, that's fine for you. But to talk about people who work in NYC as if they're all stupid, family-hating, money-loving commuter zombies when you apparently have no idea how any other industry works is rude and disrespectful.
Tell us, once and for all, what is the magical NYC salary amount needed to make it all right to work in NYC so the person with a family can live in a three-bedroom house in a good school district and does not have to live in the S. Bronx or commute in from Shirley or Mastic?
PS: Also assume the time off, benefits, work hours, etc., were also to your liking and not an obstacle.
I don't know yet; I'd have to check the cost of potential homes when I'm in that situation.
ALL of this is specific to YOUR chosen field, and has nothing to do with anyone else's experience with working in NYC, so it's pretty ignorant and/or insulting (ignorant if you just didn't realize that basically no other field is like yours, insulting if you did)
There are plenty of low profit margin fields besides mine.
Quote:
of you to make nasty comments about "people who would choose THAT lifestyle" and to accuse them of not caring about their families.
For you, personally, it may not make sense to work in NYC - as I've said, that's fine for you. But to talk about people who work in NYC as if they're all stupid, family-hating, money-loving commuter zombies when you apparently have no idea how any other industry works is rude and disrespectful.
Let's put it this way: whether or not you're better off working on LI vs NYC depends on what field you are in.
I don't know yet; I'd have to check the cost of potential homes when I'm in that situation.
Then how can you absolutely, positively declare as you just did in this thread that the engineering firms in NYC are not paying their employees enough to afford three bedroom homes in good school districts in reasonable commuting ranges with such certainty?
Now do you see why people think you are full of nonsense?
Then how can you absolutely, positively declare as you just did in this thread that the engineering firms in NYC are not paying their employees enough to afford three bedroom homes in good school districts in reasonable commuting ranges with such certainty?
Now do you see why people think you are full of nonsense?
1. Because many employees at my firm left firms from the city, and say that this firm pays better.
2. Because the people I know working at engineering firms in the city live in places like Shirley, Mastic, Wyandanch, Westhampton, and Rocky Point.
1. Because many employees at my firm left firms from the city, and say that this firm pays better.
2. Because the people I know working at engineering firms in the city live in places like Shirley, Mastic, Wyandanch, Westhampton, and Rocky Point.
You need to factor in when they bought - if they bought a house 5-6 years ago (height of the market) their money didn't go nearly as far as it would today. A 4 bedroom house in Shirley in 2006 could go for as much as $300K - that same house, now, wouldn't go for more than $200K.
How about we try research first and whining second in the future?
You need to factor in when they bought - if they bought a house 5-6 years ago (height of the market) their money didn't go nearly as far as it would today. A 4 bedroom house in Shirley in 2006 could go for as much as $300K - that same house, now, wouldn't go for more than $200K.
But the problem is, the areas near the city did not depreciate as much as the areas further east did.
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