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You're comparing apples to oranges. Bronxville is 640 acres, Battery Park City 92 acres with high rise apartments. Ronkonkoma hub is 50 acres, mixed use, no schools. There are already two Post Offices in Ronkonkoma -- the main one not far, but not quite walkable ftom the project. Given the current postal fiscal woes, do you foresee a 3rd one?
Tritec is selling this as job creation. You and I realize it benefits Tritec's employees, and leaves the project with retail which can't support a family.
You keep going back to hired fire department...that's not something that can be done in parcels. LI will end up with hundreds of independent paid fire departments, or a colossal countywide system. Up go everyone's taxes for what is a 50 acre rental project enriching Tritec.
I don't see post offices as an urgent amenity and apartment / townhouse complexes can set up their own mailbox pickup/dropoff systems so that tenants need not go to the post office. The postal service itself is becoming a dinosaur at this age of tweets and Amazon. Groceries, takeout, laundry, worship, etc. - those are more a priority and should be part of the plan. And if tenants work in the city then its likely that some of them will be using the post office there. Some employers like mine allow workers to piggyback on the mail delivery system as long as we pay for postage so no need to travel to the PO.
With respect to fire, all I'm saying is that privately developed complexes can invest in their own fire prevention systems such that they won't be a large burden on the local FD. The modern buildings in Manhattan and LIC have sprinklers, fire hoses, alarms, extinguishers on every floor as well as hired fire marshals and what not. With financial scale, there are other ways to prevent and fight fire other than hiring additional firefighters on the municipality's dime. It's not a new concept. This is being done elsewhere in the NYC metro.
I also think the analogy with Bronxville and BPC are appropriate. This development will have less acreage but will also be housing fewer residents. A comparatively smaller development also means there's less chance of an oversupply of apartments in LI at this stage until the market develops.
From what I see this hub appears to have the most important elements in place - walkability to the train (eliminating the need to drive to work/train), rental structure (making it affordable to younger households), and retail. Yeah there are still loose ends like schools, fire prevention/fighting, etc. but again those are areas where your elected officials should be able to push back at the developer. If the developers refuse then negotiate or find someone else. NYC's officials would never simply let Larry Silverstein and Stephen Ross have their way so why should Islip and Brookhaven allow Tritec to have its way?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMsDad
An important consideration....The business and retail component of this is the critical element to success. How much will the rents be? What kind of retailers will they be luring? Without a robust and thriving retail environment the affordable housing element becomes a moot point. And if they are looking to draw younger people who are working in the city, they had better nail the retail side of this project....after all they will be competing with NYC. All these commuters will have a choice of spending their dollars where they are working or back at home (in the HUB). Wherever those dollars go will be key. I don't see the HUB as being much of a "destination" area unless they hit the shopping/retail element out of the park.
Earlier in this thread I indicated that it would be wrong to shut out chains altogether. Better to negotiate and work with these chains so you have a solid retail base in the community. It's been done in other communities.
I don't see post offices as an urgent amenity and apartment / townhouse complexes can set up their own mailbox pickup/dropoff systems so that tenants need not go to the post office. The postal service itself is becoming a dinosaur at this age of tweets and Amazon. Groceries, takeout, laundry, worship, etc. - those are more a priority and should be part of the plan. And if tenants work in the city then its likely that some of them will be using the post office there. Some employers like mine allow workers to piggyback on the mail delivery system as long as we pay for postage so no need to travel to the PO.
With respect to fire, all I'm saying is that privately developed complexes can invest in their own fire prevention systems such that they won't be a large burden on the local FD. The modern buildings in Manhattan and LIC have sprinklers, fire hoses, alarms, extinguishers on every floor as well as hired fire marshals and what not. With financial scale, there are other ways to prevent and fight fire other than hiring additional firefighters on the municipality's dime. It's not a new concept. This is being done elsewhere in the NYC metro.
I also think the analogy with Bronxville and BPC are appropriate. This development will have less acreage but will also be housing fewer residents. A comparatively smaller development also means there's less chance of an oversupply of apartments in LI at this stage until the market develops.
From what I see this hub appears to have the most important elements in place - walkability to the train (eliminating the need to drive to work/train), rental structure (making it affordable to younger households), and retail. Yeah there are still loose ends like schools, fire prevention/fighting, etc. but again those are areas where your elected officials should be able to push back at the developer. If the developers refuse then negotiate or find someone else. NYC's officials would never simply let Larry Silverstein and Stephen Ross have their way so why should Islip and Brookhaven allow Tritec to have its way?
Earlier in this thread I indicated that it would be wrong to shut out chains altogether. Better to negotiate and work with these chains so you have a solid retail base in the community. It's been done in other communities.
Location: Prince Georges County, MD (formerly Long Island, NY)
1,558 posts, read 2,723,694 times
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First of all, much of the parking problem at the Ronkonkoma station would be alleviated if the LIRR would extend electrification (and double tracking) east to Medford or Yaphank. So many commuters there are driving in from points east to get more frequent service. I think I remember hearing about the LIRR moving Medford into the same fare zone as Ronkonkoma, but it hasn't done much. If there was more frequent service east, the parking problem would be mitigated.
Hopefully the double tracking will cut down the time it takes for trains to reach the city. Hopefully that, mixed with ESA will allow express trains to run Ronkonkoma-Hicksville-Jamaica(?)-Penn/GCT in an hour. That could be a major selling point, saying that you're only an hour to Manhattan. This has to be possible-- I could've sworn I read an NYT article when Ronkonkoma was first electrified that trains were getting to Penn in just under an hour.
As to the development itself, it's sorely needed. While I agree with a another poster that I'd rather see a development like this in Nassau or Western Suffolk, I'll take it anywhere at this point. I don't think Long Islanders realize how many Millennials they're losing. When I look at my friends I had in high school, the ones who went away to college never came back, while those who stayed either live with their parents or in somebody's basement. It'd be one thing if that were temporary, but there's not much out here. As for me, I'm moving this year-- I really love Long Island, but this is no way to live.
Developments like this are just what Long Island needs. BTW, I still think they should tear down the Source Mall and build a condo development there. 5 minutes to Westbury LIRR, near trendyish stores like Trader Joe's and Fairway with lots of restaurants and shopping nearby. That right there could be a hotbed for young professionals.
Affordable housing is not Section 8 housing or subsidized housing. Affordable, also called workforce housing, starter housing is meant to be in the reach of hard working people that do not make enough money to buy a home or may be trying to save for a down payment. The key difference between affordable construction and luxury is size and finish work. Jut think about it, you can redo your kitchen for $20K or $125K depending on the fixtures, trim, appliances etc. Apply that to a development project and you can understand how the costs of construction can vary enormously. I hate the implication across LI that proposals for affordable mean tenements or people below your "class level". The discriminatory attitude is pervasive and forces people of lesser means to live in unsafe, unregulated, illegal places. Thirty five years ago on LI you could buy a home for under $100K with $20K down and a low interest in a very nice area. That doesn't exist today for many reasons, so people need financial alternatives for places to live. If the rental prices mentioned in this thread are close to accurate then I am not sure how affordable this project will be and it may create new problems unless tightly monitored.
It's affordable to those who earn a living in NYC.
Another thing is that this and similar developments assuming they get completed will still not be representative of the typical NYC metro area suburban community. At least not until they venture into high rise buildings. There are only a limited number of places in the metro area that can be developed into walkable commuter suburbs so with supply limited you can presume that they can command a certain minimum price range.
There will still be people who cannot afford to live in such places given limited supply.
I highly doubt this project will attract "subpar tenants." There seems to be considerable investment going into this and I don't expect the rents to be on the very low end. Appears they are targeting working professionals. As I stated earlier, the retail component of this has to be spot on or else all you will have is people living here and spending money elsewhere. If that's the case, you will see the opening and closing of any retail that happens to move in. When that cycle happens it will be hard to gain momentum. Use a local strip center for example (anywhere on long island) that has vacancies and is not kept up. People don't want to shop there. Has anything been mentioned regarding possible retail tenants that are being sought? Any anchors in the plan? Also, any green space included (small park area or gathering place)? The elements are here for success so long as they get it right.
By Kristin Thorne
Thursday, January 29, 2015 05:46PM
Quote:
RONKONKOMA (WABC) -- The MTA is releasing new details about a plan to make it easier for commuters to get from Long Island to the East Side.
The agency announced that it is spending $76 million to expand the Ronkonkoma rail yard, which will allow it to store double the amount of trains so that if one breaks down, another one can be pulled out quickly.
It's all part of the East Side Access Project, which aims to connect the LIRR to Grand Central Terminal so that riders don't have to end up at Penn Station.
That project is expected to be complete in 2022, and adding more trains at the Ronkonkoma hub will allow the LIRR to expand service to Grand Central once that project is finished.
"We will be able to accommodate more people," the LIRR's Pat Nowakowski said. "The whole East Side access plan is predicated up to a 20 percent increase in ridership on the Long Island Rail Road."
The rail yard project is also expected to create a significant number of local jobs. They'll also be building new employee facilities.
"We're anxious to get started on this project and put these people to work," said Richard O'Kane, of the Building Trades Council. "It's a great opportunity to work with the Long Island Rail Road."
"We're doing this together," said Anthony Simon, of the United Transportation Union. "This is our one voice, our one project, and we do it for the people of Nassau and Suffolk counties."
My view on these developments is fairly straightforward: developers need to develop in order to make money and apartments are the thing to develop now, given the housing bust and the tight credit conditions for a mortgage. The towns on Long Island salivate over these projects because the developers throw campaign contributions to them like candy and promise everything from vibrant downtowns to increased revenue to magical unicorns pooping gold encrusted jewels out their butts.
But there's two main reasons to be skeptical about these developments. First, real estate is cyclical and apartments are, without a doubt, entering the top of their cycle. Everyone is developing apartments right now and soon the supply will outweigh the demand and then there's too many apartments with higher vacancies and financial problems. That's not a recipe for magical unicorns.......
Second, renters will continue to be millenials for the most part. Seniors will still look to leave the area for lower tax locales like Florida and North Carolina. Maybe some will stay to be close to family, but most I know want to leave once they retire because the cost of living is so damn high. Call me crazy, but if I were a millenial I would be looking (1) to relocate an area with good job growth, which isn't Long Island that's for sure and (2) to relocate close to the nightlife and action, which is also not suburban Long Island, especially if the apartment price points aren't too different from NYC/Hoboken/Jersey City/Queens.
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