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These arguments about net/gross and taxes are absurd. Those things apply to ALL jobs, dummies!!
It's very simple. Compare what people with accounting degrees make compared to teachers. Compare the salary and then the hours, the days off, and the pension. Teachers total compensation blows it out of the water, no teacher would trade their job to start as a staff accountant and climb the ladder trying to get to VP or something, unless you just absolutely despise kids. There's 0 job security as well. What price tag would you put on a teachers job security? $10K a year? $20K a year? You can make real commitments and not always have to worry if a new executive team is going to come in and lay everyone off and you end up losing your house.
Are you surprised public sector workers (including all school district employees) have due process protections?
Isn't there due process for accountants who work for state, federal, and local government? And school districts?
In order to have a retirement package resembling what a teaching pension adds up to, I'd have to have banked and continue to bank $30K a year from the age of 27 to 59 in a moderately performing 401K. Considering that's about 80% of what I was making at 27, that would have been a neat trick. In contrast, at the tier level most teachers are currently in, it was 5% for the first 10 years and then nothing afterwards..not even close to $30K.
Teaching and police pensions are lottery tickets, plain and simple. They are guaranteed. You sign up, you work the years, the money's there at retirement barring the state going bankrupt..which will probably have to happen since the system is absurdly unsustainable.
So, let's compare real compensation.
You're in private industry making $100K.
Your company probably has
-a 401K and matches your contribution anywhere from 0 to 6%..let's say 3%X$100K=$3,000
-And you get a total of about a month of time off between sick, personal, and vacation days. So that's $100K+$3,000(401K match)+$8,333(paid time off 4 weeks/20 work days). So your total comp is $111,333 GROSS.
Now consider what a teacher making $100K a year is really making .
-$30K pension benefit
-An additional 12 weeks off vs a non teaching job. The school year is 180 days. Ah, but teachers get sick and personal days also, the ones I know get 10/4, so it's really closer to 15 weeks off. 3.75 months time $8,333=$31,248.75.
So, the real compensation for teachers is closer to $100,000+30,000+$31,248.75=$161,248.75.
In short, a teaching job at the same salary as a job in the private sector is worth $50K more based on benefits alone..and then there's the job security.
If you did a similar calculation with LI police it would be an even bigger difference because they pay nothing towards pension or medical.
And this is all funded by taxpayers, not by a profit driven company.
Even poor-performing districts have very highly paid teachers. Again, reference the website. Brentwood median is $98k. Central Islip at $105k. Come on now. It's not that they are outstanding that we pay them so much.
I don't think it's the idea that a teacher makes more than us or whoever that irks us. It's that we are directly responsible for paying their high salaries, which is not even for a full year of work. There's also a line out the door waiting for anyone who leaves. Again, come on now. I have more understanding for the cops who put their lives in danger every day. I've served on a grand jury and heard many cases. Even on LI it IS dangerous in some areas and if you want to pay a civil servant a higher salary, it'd be them. Teachers in places like NC make 40k, if that. Are their achievements with kids any less appreciated? No. So the difference is COL in our area. Really is $70k unreasonable to them? $125k for a K teacher is what we have.
Do you have any expectation of a reduction in teacher or any public sector employee pay on Long Island? Ever?
In order to have a retirement package resembling what a teaching pension adds up to, I'd have to have banked and continue to bank $30K a year from the age of 27 to 59 in a moderately performing 401K. Considering that's about 80% of what I was making at 27, that would have been a neat trick. In contrast, at the tier level most teachers are currently in, it was 5% for the first 10 years and then nothing afterwards..not even close to $30K.
Teaching and police pensions are lottery tickets, plain and simple. They are guaranteed. You sign up, you work the years, the money's there at retirement barring the state going bankrupt..which will probably have to happen since the system is absurdly unsustainable.
So, let's compare real compensation.
You're in private industry making $100K.
Your company probably has
-a 401K and matches your contribution anywhere from 0 to 6%..let's say 3%X$100K=$3,000
-And you get a total of about a month of time off between sick, personal, and vacation days. So that's $100K+$3,000(401K match)+$8,333(paid time off 4 weeks/20 work days). So your total comp is $111,333 GROSS.
Now consider what a teacher making $100K a year is really making .
-$30K pension benefit
-An additional 12 weeks off vs a non teaching job. The school year is 180 days. Ah, but teachers get sick and personal days also, the ones I know get 10/4, so it's really closer to 15 weeks off. 3.75 months time $8,333=$31,248.75.
So, the real compensation for teachers is closer to $100,000+30,000+$31,248.75=$161,248.75.
In short, a teaching job at the same salary as a job in the private sector is worth $50K more based on benefits alone..and then there's the job security.
If you did a similar calculation with LI police it would be an even bigger difference because they pay nothing towards pension or medical.
And this is all funded by taxpayers, not by a profit driven company.
Are you suggesting some jobs have better compensation than others? Are you surprised?
Are you suggesting some jobs have better compensation than others? Are you surprised?
Your quick comments are full of holes. If the "some jobs" were in an open market place as opposed to being paid by captive tax payers, your "question" and it's silly point wouldn't leak like a sieve. Do you have any more worthless stawmen you'd like to build up?
Isn't there due process for accountants who work for state, federal, and local government? And school districts?
No, only unionized employees have due process. Teachers have due process by virtue of state legislation all other unions negotiate their own process for handling disciplinary actions.
Are you suggesting some jobs have better compensation than others? Are you surprised?
I am not sure if you are trolling or lack critical reasoning skills. I will assume the latter.
It's simple, the compensation paid to teachers is not based on any market-based discovery mechanism as for those of us in private industry. They rely on state legislation to support their current level of salary and benefits.
Your question above cannot be used to compare compensation in the public sector and private sector because the word "better" assumes the "jobs" being compared use the same mechanism to determine compensation.
Got to seethroughny.net and look up their compensation (not including benefits).
I know how much they make- that wasn't my question. Since so many people think teachers are overpaid, I was curious how much people *think* teachers deserve to make.
I know how much they make- that wasn't my question. Since so many people think teachers are overpaid, I was curious how much people *think* teachers deserve to make.
considering what I posted, a decrease in salary/pension/benefits that equals a total compensation more in line with what people in private industry make with similar qualifications.
It isn't exactly rocket science and there isn't some mystery about it. I laid the numbers out.
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