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Status:
"Let this year be over..."
(set 15 days ago)
Location: Where my bills arrive
19,220 posts, read 17,075,134 times
Reputation: 15536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovi8
How does this help if the teacher's union still has their own contract total? The only difference is the number would be larger as a county vs each district. Has nothing to do with consolidating admins and facilities. The bulk of the cost (and hence our taxes) is still there.
How does even $2mil in admin salaries compare to the $50mil collected for teacher salaries??? Across 9000 households in town, that's $222 tax each house for admin salaries vs. $5,555 tax for teacher salaries. That's a whole lot of work to change and undoubtedly frustration to save us $222.
You are looking at the queens with their big bold figures but it's the countless worker ants that are doing the real damage.
As I said in a prior post the union is the 100lb gorilla in the room that can't be eliminated. Are you telling me that all the teachers make the same rate in each district, could not collective bargaining even out the overall cost? I realize that the union doesn't give a darn about nothing but their own money but even negotiating health care for the workers should be less due to the larger numbers.
Is every classroom full, are districts duplicating services to meet SPED obligations? The queens may make the big buck but I'll bet most of the senior position are making 200K plus and that adds up. How many directors of transportation are needed?
When you look at the total number of students versus the total facilities/resources that would be available you start to realize how much is redundant and can be eliminated, that's where the savings come in. Where I work the counties finance department handles the payroll for the schools eliminating duplication, who handles Nassau Counties payroll i'll bet they do it themselves. And then have the school system submit a budget to the county so they could provide the money, property taxes would go up but the 50+ districts couldn't cry poverty every year as they try and raise the taxes.
^ I did some further math you probably didn't see... if at $15mil/yr less collected, we're saving $1667 per household, which really isn't a huge amount in itself, how much will getting rid of a few admins and some healthcare costs net us? Too much headache for next to nothing. People are seeing tax increases of $200/year because of salary increases - not only does that cancel any savings out, that's not because of admins either.
Status:
"Let this year be over..."
(set 15 days ago)
Location: Where my bills arrive
19,220 posts, read 17,075,134 times
Reputation: 15536
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovi8
^ I did some further math you probably didn't see... if at $15mil/yr less collected, we're saving $1667 per household, which really isn't a huge amount in itself, how much will getting rid of a few admins and some healthcare costs net us? Too much headache for next to nothing. People are seeing tax increases of $200/year, and that's not because of admins.
Then keep it as is and nothing will change, I will continue to read the posts perhaps someone can explain how it is more cost efficient to have all the districts..
As I said in a prior post the union is the 100lb gorilla in the room that can't be eliminated. Are you telling me that all the teachers make the same rate in each district, could not collective bargaining even out the overall cost? I
Yes, the teachers make essentially the same base salary in Nassau and in Suffolk. If you are basing your hopes to save money in two-district consolidations or county-wide consolidations via leveling teacher salaries there is no there there. (There also happens to be a New York State law regarding leveling of salaries but it is a moot point here on Long Island).
Here's another tidbit I discovered tonight...a 2007 study published in Education Finance and Policy concludes annual operating spending per pupil declines by more than 60 percent when two 300-pupil districts merge and by nearly half when two 1,500-pupil districts merge.
Can someone please explain how having 50+ districts (Nassau) duplicating services and facilities is more cost effective then combining these resources as posters have expressed?
I haven't seen a citation to that effect. The Syracuse study thrown around in this thread indicates costs go up initially in NY due to the state's incentive on capital costs but these costs are NYS income tax funded by taxpayers across the state.
I still haven't seen a citation that shows property taxes would go up in a consolidated district (IMO- that premises is impossible).
It's never going to be a reality because of teacher unions. But it should happen. It would help level out the playing field for most students.
I was very turned off by county schools when we once considered moving south. In fact, it was the major factor behind our not making the move. But the more I look at performance #s up here vs, say, Virginia, the more I realize that county schools do work better. I'm not saying it doesn't have issues. Everything does.
Your logistical reasons are peanuts compared to the big union issue.
I would think the unions would support consolidation due to lack of uber-local oversight and more bureaucratic oversight (see Suffolk County Police as a prime example of this). The number of teachers in a consolidated district would remain the same or even expand given the additional funding for rank and file positions as a result of the elimination of duplicative administrator positions.
If you really analyze this it all comes down to control. If you consolidate districts control is lost. Sort of like the school budget scare tactics, if the budget fails the kids will have to walk to school both ways uphill all the way, they will cut sports, drama, the arts, etc. There was never once in any election that it was said benefits will be cut or you will have to give up you time to tutor kids. It is all about control and little to nothing about the quality of education. BOCES program has helped a little in the cost containment and buying power but it is outpaced by the contracts that weigh each district down.
Here's another tidbit I discovered tonight...a 2007 study published in Education Finance and Policy concludes annual operating spending per pupil declines by more than 60 percent when two 300-pupil districts merge and by nearly half when two 1,500-pupil districts merge.
Please post a link. Respectfully that sounds way off base to me. I'd like to see where they are accounting for those magical savings. The only to way to affect that much savings is to eliminate salaries or physical facilities (ie building operating costs), neither of which would happen in a LI consolidation. School closures due to declining enrollments, yes. Consolidation, no. Same buildings, same utilities, same salaries = nominal cost savings. 60 and 100 percent?! I'd love to see those numbers.
Originally Posted by chetstash View Post
Here's another tidbit I discovered tonight...a 2007 study published in Education Finance and Policy concludes annual operating spending per pupil declines by more than 60 percent when two 300-pupil districts merge and by nearly half when two 1,500-pupil districts merge.
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstermagnet
Please post a link. Respectfully that sounds way off base to me. I'd like to see where they are accounting for those magical savings. The only to way to affect that much savings is to eliminate salaries or physical facilities (ie building operating costs), neither of which would happen in a LI consolidation. School closures due to declining enrollments, yes. Consolidation, no. Same buildings, same utilities, same salaries = nominal cost savings. 60 and 100 percent?! I'd love to see those numbers.
300 pupil district? Do those even exist on Long Island? Some decline in per pupil operating expenses (not property taxes BTW) at tiny districts is accepted by the experts when two tiny districts consolidate. All experts agree property taxes do not decline for mid-sized and actually increase for larger.
There is not enough space to explain why consolidation does not result in property tax reductions. That is above and beyond the obvious fact that there is essentially no reduction in teacher numbers and pay (by far the greatest single cost).
Of course it is still a surprise to some that consolidating schools within districts does not result in property tax reductions. Counterintuitive until you know the experts, facts, and past events.
Last edited by Quick Commenter; 01-29-2016 at 08:13 AM..
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