Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
LIOC, you did it the right way, i wish more people were like you.
If people are going to break one law that you seem to feel isn't that bad, then what about what tom, dick and harry feel isn't that bad either...
I was not saying it was right. I am just saying it may defeat the purpose of the person renting part of the house in the first place.
Also even if everyone did it legally you would still have the car problem.
Lastly renting illegally is not the same as robbing a bank. You can make your point (and I do see it) without making silly claims. By your standard j-walking, murder, and speeding are all equal because they are all breaking the law. All laws are not equal.
Breaking the law is breaking the law. You can't say it's "ok" to break the law because you need to make ends meet. If I'm speeding and get stopped, is it "ok" for me to speed because I have to get to work to "make ends meet" Or am I putting my life and others' lives in danger? Same with illegal rentals. You may not think so, but by having an illegal apartment (especially a basement), you're putting lives at risk.
If you have to rent out a part of your home simply to "make ends meet", then you can't afford the home and should sell it and buy something within your means (condo, townhouse, co-op, smaller house). If you still want to rent to make some extra $$$, then pay your income tax on the rent and your property tax to the town/county. Simple.
If a person has a home and they have a 2 car driveway, the tenant can park their 1 or 2 cars in front of the house. There is plenty of room for 2 cars to park in front of a house. The parking problem comes in when Mr. Slumlord decides to take his 1 family home and convert it to 4 families (up, down, basement, converted garage) or decides to "rent rooms" which is also rampant on Long Island.
Most of the illegal renters onLI are not people with kids.. it's people with kids who go and buy a home (because it's not really a good idea to rent out the basement of a home with kids) and then convert their basement tto rent out otthe single guy./ single girl or young couple that doesn't hvae kids.. There are a few exceptions.. but hten where do you expect that family to live? Maybe they dont' have a very high paying job to afford a legal rental.. or perhaps they are trying to get a cheaper rental to save up the ridiculous amount of money it takes to own a home here.
Yeah.. Rome wasn't built in aday.. but I've been here my whole life and haven't seen it getting better.. only worse! The attitude most LI'rs have is going to keep change from coming.. in order to get taxes in line the SD 's need to be mainstreamed and trimmed..will never happen!! Specila districts eliminnated.. will never happen.. alteast not in my lifetime.. and i don't want to waste my life fighting for a change that will not come and just continue to struggle.
Maybe the change will come when the middle class people, like myself, who have had enough leave and then people look around and things get really bad. Businesses have already gotten the idea about cost of l and have gone to greener ( and more affordable) pastures. Maybe that will wake people up.
Look.. I never insulted any person on this board. I may be angry but i have a right to be as does all the other struggling families here. It's not personal against you or the other guy or anyone.. but it is an emotional issue. AND this board is here so people can look at what life is really like on LI. I'm here to tell them that .. yeah. .there are parks, beaches, perks.. etc..but here is the cost of all that. They better know what they are getting into becaues if the don't they could live to regret their decision. But, if they make it anyway despite what I have to say.. and people will and that's fine, atleast they went in informed.
I am only quoting the bottom portion of your response as our discourse is becoming very long.
The special districts nonsense gets me riled up, too. You are not alone in this.
Let me ask you, please, to read what I write and not infer anything beyond what is written. When I used the word 'temporary' it was not meant as 'short-lived' -- temporary was used as in 'not being permanent' and a temporary problem can be one of a lengthy duration prior to the resolution.
If you saw yourself in the comment where you felt I lumped you into it, well I am sorry. Realise that I can't write 1,597,321 different situations down, but in an effort to try and streamline things, made categories reflecting the most noticeable problems/situations.
Addressing your neighborhood, rentals, middle class neighborhoods and foreclosures. You mentioned your Levitt home; those were once considered starter homes. People like my mom and dad moved from the city to a Levitt home and then over time saved money and traded up. Granted, it was a while ago that they did this. It is a shame that a starter home has to be so expensive. But who do we blame for the cost running up? Do we blame me? No. Do we blame the GC guy? No. Do we blame other Levitt owners who saw housing prices going up and so they cashed in on that trend? Yes. Do we blame the people who bought at these inflated prices, perpetuating the trend? Yes, as much as it stinks to say it, the answer is yes.
If you are living in a neighborhood which already has illegal rentals, then it is something you accept as the neighborhood might have already taken this direction prior to your arrival. If your neighbors keep things nice and neat, that's great, but it is still illegal. There is extra trash generated, another car or two (if it is a couple living there.) There is additional traffic on the streets (when my family first moved to Levittown -- families had 1 car, there was little traffic and kids played in the street.) Things start to get a little more congested. If I moved to Queens, this is something I would expect, and I can understand why (given the economics) people would want to make an illegal apartment on LI. Zoning should be changed to create multifamily housing and it should be contained to those areas. Not everyone wants single family homes converted to 2 or more family, and not everyone is against them either. Just bear in mind that people who moved into a single family neighborhood expected just that.
Illegal apartments, with landlords taking the cash rent and pocketing it -- do you believe the landlord is claiming the rent as income? He is stealing from the government and the state if s/he isn't claiming it. And what about the slumlord style landlord? They start off with one or two families in a single family home and gradually bring in more and more. What happens when someone on a street decides to become an absentee landlord? Check out Farmingville and you will see houses that are rented out to 10-20 men! Accepting any illegal apartment can open a neighborhood up to the potential abuses of absentee landlords.
Look at what has gone on in Brooklyn -- brownstones that sold really cheap years back are now going for millions. It could be done here. Some (not all) people won't consider a poor area on LI, even though it would provide them with an affordable alternative. They see skin color and fear that and would rather overextend themselves in an area more inline with their skin tone.
Neighborhoods in my area have a turnover of homes based upon employment at the University and neighboring hospitals. I haven't seen board ups in this area. However further south -- same zip code and in the south end of the neighboring community, we are seeing more of them. This is occurring primarily in smaller, development houses built in the late '60's. As the old Clamboy used to write, some people buy into this area as an ego purchase. People buy the zip code, but settle for the tract housing (like we see all over LI.) They pay a premium for it so that they can boast that they've moved upward. Then the bills come in and things start to fall apart. While I can't blame a person for trying to trade up, I do fault them if they hadn't properly planned.
I am going to guess that like me, you had some idea as to your monthly expenses (other than housing) going into your home purchase. I understand your heating issues too well. I'm at 62 and even the dog is looking at me cross.
As for kids -- my friends and I have elementary aged children. While I might be older than you, I got a late start (financially) in life -- so economically, we are comparable. I settled on a wreck of a house to get into my neighborhood cheaper. My house would have been out of the question if it had been a turn key property.
I never mentioned abything about taxes getting lowered...I believe someone on the board might have written something about that. NO matter what happens to our property values -- the pols will keep the taxes increasing
I am only quoting the bottom portion of your response as our discourse is becoming very long.
The special districts nonsense gets me riled up, too. You are not alone in this.
Let me ask you, please, to read what I write and not infer anything beyond what is written. When I used the word 'temporary' it was not meant as 'short-lived' -- temporary was used as in 'not being permanent' and a temporary problem can be one of a lengthy duration prior to the resolution. Yes.. but i'm saying that the cost of living issue isn't a short term situation.
If you saw yourself in the comment where you felt I lumped you into it, well I am sorry. Realise that I can't write 1,597,321 different situations down, but in an effort to try and streamline things, made categories reflecting the most noticeable problems/situations. You didn't neccesarily streamline the ISSUE.. rather you streamlined those locked up in the issue that we were debating about into one category.. and that is luxury driving, Mcmansion owning consumers. If that's not what you meant, that's how it read.
Addressing your neighborhood, rentals, middle class neighborhoods and foreclosures. You mentioned your Levitt home; those were once considered starter homes. People like my mom and dad moved from the city to a Levitt home and then over time saved money and traded up. Granted, it was a while ago that they did this. It is a shame that a starter home has to be so expensive. But who do we blame for the cost running up? Do we blame me? No. Do we blame the GC guy? No. Do we blame other Levitt owners who saw housing prices going up and so they cashed in on that trend? Yes. Do we blame the people who bought at these inflated prices, perpetuating the trend? Yes, as much as it stinks to say it, the answer is yes. It's nice to say .. well it's the fault of the person who bought into the frenzy.. but that brings ups back to the argument of where do you go.. where does that couple go? Don't buy.. okay .. but if we don't buy where do we live. Do we raise our children in the basement of our parents home. That's the same issue of overcrowding a neighborhood because now you have in essence 2 families living in 1 school district? It just turned out that at the time this "bubble" occurred is the time in my life where moving to a house was neccesary. The prices were what they were. ARe couples then supposed to walk away from their families and leave . Renting isn't that great of a possibility for all the arguments we have made on this board. I blame the mortgage industry for loosening up standars so much that flooded the market with buyers that pusehd up the market AND I blame LI in general for ignoring for many years the housing issue. Not everyone wants single family homes converted to 2 or more family, and not everyone is against them either. Most are against them.. but the general mentality is that their not until it's in their backyard. Just bear in mind that people who moved into a single family neighborhood expected just that. Long Ilsand is typically all single family.. there are no real "neighborhoods" that are more than single family... hence the problem. Certain houses can then become single family. I will say that certain towns, like the Town of Babylon, have adapted codes to allow for accesory apartments that meet a certain criteria.. BUt then those apartments are charged more taxes and kind of defeats the purpose. Watch a town try to deem an area a multiple family zoned area and the anger will fly at those meetings! They all want a solution as long as the solution doesn't effect them.
Illegal apartments, with landlords taking the cash rent and pocketing it -- do you believe the landlord is claiming the rent as income? No.. they are not .. but then that kind of defeats the purpose. It's not really expendable income. They are not taking that money and using it to buy extra things or take vacations.. they are using it to cover the overinflated taxes and living expenses. All the families I know doing it are only doing it to pay for costs. If they had to count that as income it would defeat the purpose.. AND since their rental is deemed "illegal" by the local government they can't claim it on income taxes for fear of getting caught. Get caught, get fined and loose the ability to do it to cover costs. He is stealing from the government and the state if s/he isn't claiming it. Like the government hasn't been stealing from su on LI.. And what about the slumlord style landlord? They start off with one or two families in a single family home and gradually bring in more and more. I'm not talking about the "investor" landlord who owns a second home that he rents out. They are a different breed all together. AND to be quite honest with you.. rental homes that are exclusively owned to rent on a block is what is really driving down your property or neighborhood. I can tell you which homes on my block are rental property homes (there is 1 ) but I wouldn't be able to tell you which homes on my block, if any, have an illegal tennant. The ones that are owned by investors to rent are the eyesores of the neighborhood. We're talking about a hard working couple here with extra space to rent out to a single guy/girl etc. What happens when someone on a street decides to become an absentee landlord? Check out Farmingville and you will see houses that are rented out to 10-20 men! I totally agree with you.. but the family that is living in the house and is making use of their second floor or their basement (and I don't mean small basement.. but a nice size one) will not be renting out their home to just anyone and to multiple people. Accepting any illegal apartment can open a neighborhood up to the potential abuses of absentee landlords. Being an absentee landlord and renting out a house you own on LI is NOT illegal anywhere no LI.. they are the legal rentals (unless the landlord divides it.. I'm not talking about excusing those they are a different category all together). And they are the most horrible houses on the block. But, I do feel that the towns should allow for a family that does have some extra space that IS living in the house to rent out that extra space.. bet your neighbors won't even notice. AGain.. I only know my neighbor does this because they told me so .. I don't notice any more garbage, noise or anything else of the sort coming from that house. ANd .. i never generated , as an illegal renter, so much garbage. Again.. most of thes illegal renters are your single guy or single girl.. not families or multiple families (in the houses that have families that own them livign in them and renting extra space) Absent landlords are a completely different subject. I think you suggested that adult children live with their parents.. well, that causes car problems nad crowding ANd garbage issues as well. I remember at one point all three of us grown kids were living with our parents (ages 19, 21 and 24) and between us we had 5 cars!!! Talk about crowding the block.. and the garbage.. no need to tell you how much garbage 19 and 20 year old boys (who have friends come over) can generate. They neighbor also had 2 adult children still living at home around the same ages.. they had 4 cars between them.
Look at what has gone on in Brooklyn -- brownstones that sold really cheap years back are now going for millions. It could be done here. Some (not all) people won't consider a poor area on LI, even though it would provide them with an affordable alternative. They see skin color and fear that and would rather overextend themselves in an area more inline with their skin tone. What I look at when I look for a home is NOT skin color. I look at crime...and wether or not I can walk out my door without worrying about a drive by shooting!! Yeah.. poor neighbhorhoods have high violent crime and the chance of getting shot.. has nothing to do with skin color. Sad to say that a family making 80K a year should have to live in the "ghetto".. which is the poor sections of LI. That also goes back to how the goal of every parent is to give your child a better life than you have. .. so should we all take steps backwards and move into high crime neighborhoods just to enjoy the beaches of LI and the quaint villages?
Neighborhoods in my area have a turnover of homes based upon employment at the University and neighboring hospitals. I haven't seen board ups in this area. However further south -- same zip code and in the south end of the neighboring community, we are seeing more of them. This is occurring primarily in smaller, development houses built in the late '60's. As the old Clamboy used to write, some people buy into this area as an ego purchase. People buy the zip code, but settle for the tract housing (like we see all over LI.) They pay a premium for it so that they can boast that they've moved upward. Then the bills come in and things start to fall apart. While I can't blame a person for trying to trade up, I do fault them if they hadn't properly planned. If you say they pay a preimuim for a zip code, then you live ina premium neighbhood.. which means that again.. its nto a middle class neighborhoods. Premium neighborhoods are ones like Roslyn, roslyn village, East Williston, New Hyde Park, Searingtown..etc. waterfront properties on both North and South shore.. It is silly to buy a home just for the zip code.. I agree totally. But neighborhoods.. middle blue collar neighbhorhoods.. starter neighborhoods are NOT premium zip codes. People arent buying in Levittown to boast of their zip code. So I'm not quite understanding that argument. Massapequa, Farmingdale, levittown, Lindenhurst, Copaigue, North Babylon , Deer Park.. these are examples of middle income blue collar neighborhoods that do not have premium zip codes. People arent buying in those neighborhoods to boast of where they live. And they are struggling for their non premium neighborhoods.
I am going to guess that like me, you had some idea as to your monthly expenses (other than housing) going into your home purchase. I understand your heating issues too well. I'm at 62 and even the dog is looking at me cross.
As for kids -- my friends and I have elementary aged children. While I might be older than you, I got a late start (financially) in life -- so economically, we are comparable. I settled on a wreck of a house to get into my neighborhood cheaper. My house would have been out of the question if it had been a turn key property. And I settled on a wreck of a house to get into a starter neighborhood. Believe me.. this house had to be gutted. We lived the entire first year and half living in 2 rooms upstairs with a kitchen we put in (very cheaply adn piping was already there.. once used as an illegal apartment) while we renovated the first floor. We ate, slept, watch TV all on our bed..and for the first 6 months of our sons life.. becasue we did the work ourselves with the money that we got in as we got it to fix . No turn key here.. and most families I know purchased homes that had older kitchens, bathrooms and needed work . Not to get INTO a prominent "zip code" but to get into a home to make for themselves and their children. Just like my friend I mentioned that rents her basement out to a single guy . It's a small house with two bedrooms (small bedrooms) kitchen , LR and one bathroom upstairs ontheir level. They live there with the wife and two very small children and fixed it up too .
I never mentioned abything about taxes getting lowered...I believe someone on the board might have written something about that. NO matter what happens to our property values -- the pols will keep the taxes increasing
I know you didn't.. I was just adding more to support my case about the cost of livign and to make a point is all.
I am sorry that my answers are long winded.. but I have a lot to say. I understand your points.. but i can counter all of them. Believe it or not.. I do enjoy the banter back and forth.. and it helps me vent my frustrations.
and to that other poster.. no I will not shorten my answers so that you don't have to scrolll.. don't read it if you don't want to ..t hat's all.
Most of the illegal renters onLI are not people with kids.. it's people with kids who go and buy a home (because it's not really a good idea to rent out the basement of a home with kids) and then convert their basement tto rent out otthe single guy./ single girl or young couple that doesn't hvae kids..
That isn't even remotely true. There are many, many families renting and most of the rentals are illegal.
Not everyone can afford to purchase a home and the smart ones aren't going to get themselves into a mortgage they know they can't afford.
Last edited by omigawd; 01-09-2008 at 05:39 PM..
Reason: grammatical error
Breaking the law is breaking the law. You can't say it's "ok" to break the law because you need to make ends meet. If I'm speeding and get stopped, is it "ok" for me to speed because I have to get to work to "make ends meet" Or am I putting my life and others' lives in danger? Same with illegal rentals. You may not think so, but by having an illegal apartment (especially a basement), you're putting lives at risk.
If you have to rent out a part of your home simply to "make ends meet", then you can't afford the home and should sell it and buy something within your means (condo, townhouse, co-op, smaller house). If you still want to rent to make some extra $$$, then pay your income tax on the rent and your property tax to the town/county. Simple.
If a person has a home and they have a 2 car driveway, the tenant can park their 1 or 2 cars in front of the house. There is plenty of room for 2 cars to park in front of a house. The parking problem comes in when Mr. Slumlord decides to take his 1 family home and convert it to 4 families (up, down, basement, converted garage) or decides to "rent rooms" which is also rampant on Long Island.
Yes, Yes... Breaking the law is breaking the law. Next time I see someone speeding (because we know here on LI most people don't go faster then 55 on the highway) I'll make sure to report them. And is it ok for you to speed? No. But people do it all the time on LI. I don't think even 1/2 of the people here drive slower then the limit unless in traffic. But i don't see this board filled with compliant about that. And a lot more people are killed from speeding ,and cars in general, then illegal apartments. I mean we have a whole lot of cars here.........maybe I should move
You never see "don't move to LI!!!!! They all speed and will kill you!!!!" threads. Even if it is much more of a danger. More of a danger then living in Roosevelt, Hempstead or any of the other undesirable parts. Or the worst of the worst, the illegal apartment ridden areas on LI.
As for the safety issue. The tenet can see the "apartment" before they move in. If the choose to moving then they are just as much fault. It is different from a land lord not fixing something that is broke. The "apartment" is what it is. If you wish not to live in a fire hazard then don't move into one. If I looked at a place that looked dangerous to me i would not move in. And since there are so many illegal "apartments" on LI i am sure I will find another.(I am just being factious with that last comment)
People on this site have to stop spreading the myth that most illegal "apartments" are own by slumlords. Most are lived in by the owners. And you are right they rent because for some reason or another they can't afford their home. Most people would not rent part of there home if they could afford it on there own.
And I have a question for you. If the family does give up the house they can not afford where would you have them live? Because we all know there are not enough legal apartments on LI to house all of them and the people of LI don't want apartment buildings mucking up the “character†of their fair towns
How can you "see" faulty wiring? Or know that a circuit is overloaded? A tenant moves in with the thought that the apartment is in fine working order. Of course, if it's illegal, no one can say whether it is or isn't since it hasn't passed any code inspections.
Living in a basement apartment alone is a hazard since most only have 1 exit and the windows aren't easily accessible for a quick escape in a fire. Of course, no one looks at an apartment thinking there's going to be a fire or that anything is going to happen.
If a family purchases a home they cannot afford, why can't they move into a smaller home that they CAN afford? Or a condo or co-op or townhouse?
That isn't even remotely true. There are many, many families renting and most of the rentals are illegal.
Not everyone can afford to purchase a home and the smart ones aren't going to get themselves into a mortgage they know they can't afford.
Okay.. maybe it's 75/25.. 25% families, 75% singles or young couples with no kids.. regardless.. where would they live if they didn't rent the apartment that is "illegal". I'm sure if they had a choice they'd rather pay to live in their own home and not "free ride" the school system..because who wants to raise their kids in a basement apartment or upstairs of a cape! (I would tend to say that more "families" are really single parent with children that rent rather than a hubby/wife and kids.
How can you "see" faulty wiring? Or know that a circuit is overloaded? A tenant moves in with the thought that the apartment is in fine working order. Of course, if it's illegal, no one can say whether it is or isn't since it hasn't passed any code inspections.
Living in a basement apartment alone is a hazard since most only have 1 exit and the windows aren't easily accessible for a quick escape in a fire. Of course, no one looks at an apartment thinking there's going to be a fire or that anything is going to happen.
If a family purchases a home they cannot afford, why can't they move into a smaller home that they CAN afford? Or a condo or co-op or townhouse?
ARe you from Long Island.. seriously? K.. why can't they move into smaller homes.. um..k.. let me break it down for you...
Families renting out their homes to help them pay the outrageous cost of living are LIVING IN STARTER HOMES!!! Not HUGE homes.. there is not much smaller than a "starter" home on Long Island.. and guess what.. it's pretty dang pricey. So.. if they can't afford their small starter home..then where will they live.. in someone else's basement.. but then if all who could by your definitions afford a home..then there's no basements to rent.. then where do people and college grads live? THERE IS NOT ENOUGH LEGAL AND AFFORDABLE RENTAL HOUSING ON LI TO GO AROUND! THERE IS NOT ENOUGH AFFORDABLE HOUSING ON LI ALONE TO ALLOW A FAMILY TO PURCHASE ONE WITHOUT SUBSIDIZING BY RENTING OUT THEIR BASEMENTS. I don't mean to internet shout. but I did need to stress my point.. so please don't take it that I'm yellling at you...
As for you can't see "faulty wiring".. you're forgeting something. These landlord we are talking about are living in the same home as the person they are renting too. They had the home inspected when they purchased.. they also keep it up and maintain it well .. it's called pride in homeownership as well as not wanting to have a fire and loose all thier values but most importantly theirs and their children's lives. Now.. can something be wrong and someone not see it.. yes.. but it's not really that common. You are more likely to get killed on the Souther State Parkway than by living in a basement apartment. If the apartment is clean , homeowners are nice and keep up the house.. you'll be fine. And not ALL legal apartments are basements. I happened to have lived on the second floor of a cape as did a lot of my girlfriends.
As for condo coop townhouse.. First.. owning a condo/townhouse.. same price as a starter house on LI..seriously! As for a coop.. not big enough for a family with more than 1 kid.. and tehy get pricey as they get bigger too. So that's not really a practical option. Also, boards won't allow families to "cram" into apartments in their coop andwould never pass the board.
How can you "see" faulty wiring? Or know that a circuit is overloaded? A tenant moves in with the thought that the apartment is in fine working order. Of course, if it's illegal, no one can say whether it is or isn't since it hasn't passed any code inspections.
Living in a basement apartment alone is a hazard since most only have 1 exit and the windows aren't easily accessible for a quick escape in a fire. Of course, no one looks at an apartment thinking there's going to be a fire or that anything is going to happen.
If a family purchases a home they cannot afford, why can't they move into a smaller home that they CAN afford? Or a condo or co-op or townhouse?
Wiring goes bad over time. It can happen in any house. House apartments are only inspected once when you set them up unless you are renting to people using section 8. So that will not really save you. Not to mention like I stated before most illegal landlord live in their houses. Do you really think they are going to let it burn down. You know the house they are risking being fighting to keep.
Most basements i know have two ways out. A way upstairs and a way outside. I don't think I know any with one way out. But either way you can convert an basement into an apartment legally on LI, so your point is moot. What about top floors rentals (legal and illegal) where your options are the normal one way out or jumping out an second floor window. I guess no one should live on anything but the first floor. But that was not really my point.
I guess you missed the part where only 4% of houses on LI are affordable to families making less then $100,000. Guess what? Most families on LI make less then or around 100,000 Where are all these condos and co-op, and townhouses you speak of because as far as I know there is a housing shortage on LI. And once you do find one how much are they? Becuse I am guessing (as I have not looked at condos, co-ops, or townhouses) they are just as crazy in price at the rest on housing on the island.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
don't read it if you don't want to ..t hat's all.
) I'll make sure to report them. And is it ok for you to speed? No. But people do it all the time on LI. I don't think even 1/2 of the people here drive slower then the limit unless in traffic. But i don't see this board filled with compliant about that. And a lot more people are killed from speeding ,and cars in general, then illegal apartments. I mean we have a whole lot of cars here.........maybe I should move
