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Hey DB, I learned long ago not to get worked up over an internet forum debate.... I just like pointing out how screwed up their reasoning is. Like this:
Quote:
Lawbreaking cheapskates? Really is it because we're cheapskates or is it because spending twice the amount is completely unnecessary?
You see, it is necessary, because for a contractor to run a legal business, he has to pay for a certain amount of overhead which is ultimately paid for by the clients. Ovi says he (she?) just doesnt care about silly nonsense like that though. He would rather break the law by hiring criminals to build the bathrooms. Yep, I said criminals... They are breaking the law and could lose their tools, truck, pay fines, and potentially wind up in the clink just to provide Ovi with a cheap price. Personally, I dont understand the risk. I'd hate to have to look over my shoulder like that every day.
I wonder if Ovi goes to a restaurant and offers half price for a steak saying he shouldnt have to pay for all the owners silly overhead.
Hey DB, I learned long ago not to get worked up over an internet forum debate.... I just like pointing out how screwed up their reasoning is. Like this:
You see, it is necessary, because for a contractor to run a legal business, he has to pay for a certain amount of overhead which is ultimately paid for by the clients. Ovi says he (she?) just doesnt care about silly nonsense like that though. He would rather break the law by hiring criminals to build the bathrooms. Yep, I said criminals... They are breaking the law and could lose their tools, truck, pay fines, and potentially wind up in the clink just to provide Ovi with a cheap price. Personally, I dont understand the risk. I'd hate to have to look over my shoulder like that every day.
I wonder if Ovi goes to a restaurant and offers half price for a steak saying he shouldnt have to pay for all the owners silly overhead.
I think the hard part is having these people understand the true project cost break down.
They look at their neighbor who has a couple of trucks and a office in the basement and assume that they are being ripped off because how could that contractor's overhead be so much..
In reality, the legal labor, liability and insurance, and day to day operation cost are a large portion of the total cost.
Let's look a a generic second floor addition... (yes there are many variables)
What clients don't realize is that the materials for the project cost 75k.
The labor is another 50k,
The the overhead is another 20k
And after 8 weeks the GC wants to make 8k profit for all of his troubles.. This is America isn't it?
You guys done stroking yourselves? Or is it just one guy having a conversation with his alter ego? Speaking of criminals, are you claiming and paying taxes on all of your "cash projects"? I have yet to know a contractor who does.
Hey DB, I learned long ago not to get worked up over an internet forum debate.... I just like pointing out how screwed up their reasoning is. Like this:
You see, it is necessary, because for a contractor to run a legal business, he has to pay for a certain amount of overhead which is ultimately paid for by the clients. Ovi says he (she?) just doesnt care about silly nonsense like that though. He would rather break the law by hiring criminals to build the bathrooms. Yep, I said criminals... They are breaking the law and could lose their tools, truck, pay fines, and potentially wind up in the clink just to provide Ovi with a cheap price. Personally, I dont understand the risk. I'd hate to have to look over my shoulder like that every day.
I wonder if Ovi goes to a restaurant and offers half price for a steak saying he shouldnt have to pay for all the owners silly overhead.
It's most certainly not nonsense as you have a valid concern, but it is your concern, not mine. I'm not asking you to risk breaking the law and lose your license/pay fines. I'm not asking YOU to do anything. We just shook our heads and never called the 14k guys back. There are certain things you (we) pay a premium for and a 7x5 bathroom with OUR materials is not one of those situations.
You guys done stroking yourselves? Or is it just one guy having a conversation with his alter ego? Speaking of criminals, are you claiming and paying taxes on all of your "cash projects"? I have yet to know a contractor who does.
How do you know that AJS does cash projects? Seems like you are just assuming...
Are you saying that you or he (whichever you want to be today) would turn down a job if the customer only wanted to pay cash? I think we all know the answer.
Hahah so you think me and AJS are the same person.. Seriously, that's a good 1... I'm not even a contractor. If you think that is true ask an admin or mod or someone to check..
I rarely see cash and when I do it doesn't matter, I have bills to pay and need to cover them.
Unlike most contractors (especially the pirate handyman contractors) who give that "incentive" to pay cash, I never do. It's not the game I play, it’s cheesy and unprofessional. Personal checks are fine and are safer for the owner. I don't want my clients especially some of my older clients going to the bank to withdraw large sums of cash. It’s not safe for them and it’s easier for me to handle one check. Some may call BS on that, but then again you can’t afford a professional on my level.
I charge more than enough to overcome that cash temptation of circumventing the tax laws. Those that need to are at the bottom of the food chain and probably fighting over a twenty dollar bill at the end of the week.
I'm writing the following not for the outpatients here but for those passing through looking to get real honest information/opinion from a contractor.
As for the cheaper guy vs the professional expensive guy I see it a little differently.
Everyone has overhead, and each business (legit or not) will have different overhead costs. But there’s also the cost of doing high quality work. Not all contractors build to the same level of quality, and not all contractors care about giving their customers value for their money along with a long product service life.
Most contractors build for the masses. There’s nothing wrong with it and there’s a need for those contractors because the majority of the public want acceptable inexpensive work. That goes for all products. That’s why most products are manufactured in China and Mexico. Demands will always be filled and they will be filled by all kinds. It follows the old idiom “you get what you pay for” and for the most part that is true.
It’s the common law of business/economics balance that prohibits paying a little and getting a lot. It cannot be done. You may think you got a lot, but that’s marketing and your own biases at work.
Not knowing anything about a product and only considering price is not only foolish but ignorant. I purchase cheap junk all the time, but I know it’s junk and don’t try to convinced myself I got something great for cheap. Few people actually get it. But the devil is in the details and it’s up to the consumer to figure it out.
Want to believe two bathrooms of the same size are equal in quality but one cost 5K and the other cost 15K? please go ahead and believe it. The real question should be why is the cheaper bathroom 10K less? But residential remodeling projects are a very difficult monster to compare apples to apples because there are too many variables such as using cheap drywall screws to fasten everything or using an array of high quality fasteners specific for each task and all the other unseen materials that you will never see (or think are there but are not). This makes it very easy for the cheaper guy to actually make a higher profit margin than the expensive guy. I may be more expensive but my profit margin could be the same, now go figure that one out yourself.
Quality will always be the defining element once your project is completed
Being in the process of getting quotes on my addition, I keep on hearing about how 'my quality of work is much higher'. 'I don't skimp on labor or parts'.
Seriously, everyone says it. The guys who quoted me 190k and the one who quoted me 130k.
One of the higher quote guy brought me to tour a home they are currently finishing up and is up for sale. Honestly, looks no different then a guy who remodel my friends home in queens.
Framing a house, not carving an exquisite cabinet display piece. Do I really have to care if they are sing a drywall screw to hang my kitchen cabinet? Pretty sure it's still not going to fall down in the 20-30 years.
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