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It's really quite simple. We live in an increasingly global world where companies are able to lower costs like never before, especially for labor. You no longer compete for a job against workers in Boston or Philadelphia or Los Angeles. You compete against those in Poland, Philippines, China and Vietnam. And they are willing to work for much less than you.
Welcome to the world of global trade where multinational companies move your jobs overseas and earn higher profits as a result. Because they lobby our dimwit elected officials to do so, because it's "good for everyone."
Just wait another 20 years when the Chinese will essentially replace us at the top of the pecking order and will be exerting even more control over the world. It won't be a pretty sight, ask anyone who lived through Tiananmen what freedom means to the Chinese government.
I think it's important to note that most of the salaries on Long Island are not cheap when compared to the greater US. They seem cheap because NYC salaries are so much higher, but NYC/SF type salaries are very high to begin with.
What really causes trouble is that NYC salaries results in many NYC commuters living on Long Island which push prices up here. So Long Island may have more of a cost of living problem than a wage problem. Most earning a Long Island level salary could live quite comfortably in places like GA/CO/NC/OH where costs aren't so distorted.
Still, overall US salaries are going nowhere as I mentioned before.
I think it's important to note that most of the salaries on Long Island are not cheap when compared to the greater US. They seem cheap because NYC salaries are so much higher, but NYC/SF type salaries are very high to begin with.
What really causes trouble is that NYC salaries results in many NYC commuters living on Long Island which push prices up here. So Long Island may have more of a cost of living problem than a wage problem. Most earning a Long Island level salary could live quite comfortably in places like GA/CO/NC/OH where costs aren't so distorted.
Still, overall US salaries are going nowhere as I mentioned before.
Exactly! The salaries on LI aren't that low, it's just that the cost of living is so high. And, as I said before, if you adjust for cost of living, the NYC salaries are even worse, even if they are a higher dollar amount.
Another aspect that hasn't been mentioned is health benefits. I know some law firms I interviewed with here on the island were very upfront about health coverage and requiring employees to pay a higher premium because they either (1) had so many employees waiving coverage (ie females working as support staff at the firm on their husband's health coverage so they didnt contribute a dime toward benefits),
I'm a little confused. I realize that if an employee opts out of health coverage, they obviously don't pay into the system. But they are also not collecting any benefits from the system. So, how do these employees increase the cost of coverage? It seems to me that they should have no effect either way. Unless I am missing something.
In any case, the company I work for is almost entirely male.
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or (2) the firm was so small (> 50 employees) that the employer had no choice but to choose expensive HMOs that required employees to pay higher premiums (my most expensive health insurance plan cost me $ 258/month when I worked for a 4 person law firm).
Interestingly, when I worked for a small firm a few years ago, our health insurance was very inexpensive and offered a very high level of coverage. No idea what that firm is offering these days. It may have had less to do with the size of the firm, but rather because nearly everybody who was on the insurance at the time were young singles males.
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I think its a personal decision one has to make - how much they are willing to sacrifice to make the higher salary in NYC.
Exactly!
Back to health insurance: do Long Island firms mostly offer high cost, high coverage health insurance plans, thinking that LI employees place a higher value on health insurance than NYC employees? Maybe what is needed would be for LI (and NYC) employees to offer more choices when it comes to health insurance. Maybe they can start offering a low cost, low coverage option for employees who are healthy but are struggling to live within their means, and don't want to commute to NYC.
I think it's important to note that most of the salaries on Long Island are not cheap when compared to the greater US. They seem cheap because NYC salaries are so much higher, but NYC/SF type salaries are very high to begin with.
What really causes trouble is that NYC salaries results in many NYC commuters living on Long Island which push prices up here.
And don't forget all the artificially inflated public sector salaries and all those contractors who employ illegals and keep their profits off the books.
I think it's important to note that most of the salaries on Long Island are not cheap when compared to the greater US. They seem cheap because NYC salaries are so much higher, but NYC/SF type salaries are very high to begin with.
What really causes trouble is that NYC salaries results in many NYC commuters living on Long Island which push prices up here. So Long Island may have more of a cost of living problem than a wage problem. Most earning a Long Island level salary could live quite comfortably in places like GA/CO/NC/OH where costs aren't so distorted.
Still, overall US salaries are going nowhere as I mentioned before.
As I pointed out, LI salaries are not that special. There are plenty of areas where the average salary is equal to or higher than the average on LI. Take a look at the data on this page and you can see there are places in GA/CO/NC/OH where many do live more comfortably because costs are lower and their average salary is the same or higher than on LI:
I'm a little confused. I realize that if an employee opts out of health coverage, they obviously don't pay into the system. But they are also not collecting any benefits from the system. So, how do these employees increase the cost of coverage? It seems to me that they should have no effect either way. Unless I am missing something.
In any case, the company I work for is almost entirely male.
Interestingly, when I worked for a small firm a few years ago, our health insurance was very inexpensive and offered a very high level of coverage. No idea what that firm is offering these days. It may have had less to do with the size of the firm, but rather because nearly everybody who was on the insurance at the time were young singles males.
Exactly!
Back to health insurance: do Long Island firms mostly offer high cost, high coverage health insurance plans, thinking that LI employees place a higher value on health insurance than NYC employees? Maybe what is needed would be for LI (and NYC) employees to offer more choices when it comes to health insurance. Maybe they can start offering a low cost, low coverage option for employees who are healthy but are struggling to live within their means, and don't want to commute to NYC.
One employer law firm based in Nassau county told me that if it weren't for hiring me and 2 secretaries, he would have put in an option of "no health benefits offered" on his job ad. Granted, this was before Obama care so he wasn't required to offer health benefits. His reasoning was "I run a lean practice, with 1 attorney for appearances, 1 paralegal for paper work, 2 secretaries to handle phone calls and office stuff, and my wife who handles human resources/payroll. I dont need to offer health insurance and paying for such policies if it hurts my bottom line".
Another aspect that probably goes unsaid with LI based salary negotiations is how being a woman can be a liability than an asset. At my old firm, we hired 5 secretaries over the span of 1 year because 2 of them got pregnant within 3 months of being hired and either quit on their own, or were laid off because they kept calling in sick, excuses to leave early all the time, etc. Employers want productive employees - not lazy women who get knocked up every few years and have to take maternity leave (I know I am knocking my own gender here, but I cant help but agree that if I had a child, I would likely put my career on hold too for a few months/years too). Some LI based employers actually target females for lower paid positions because their thinking is "oh she will get pregnant and quit, and then I can just hire her replacement for another 30K/yr and dont need to worry about giving her raises, etc".
As to your query about how employees increase the cost of coverage - it goes without saying that the more employees an employer has to cover (workers comp; health, etc) the more money they have to pay. Combine this with taxes, lease payment, and business related expenses - you can easily see why many smaller LI companies have to short their employees on 1 aspect, and that aspect is usually salary. I don't think there are LI firms function under any belief that LI employees place a higher value on health ins than NYC employees. I think there could be some type of correlation between the average AGE of employees in LI vs. NYC though. I know in my early to late 20s, I didn't care about health insurance because I was healthy. I worked for many firms where health insurance wasn't offered or would only kick in after 3 months or more. At the time, I didn't care (I really should have, I was recently diagnosed with some health issues that had I known was important in catching "early" would have prevented needless surgery) but many employees may consider working closer to LI for a lower salary IF their health insurance benefits are better or cost less. Just a thought.
Last edited by LegalDiva; 02-04-2015 at 02:17 PM..
Exactly! The salaries on LI aren't that low, it's just that the cost of living is so high. And, as I said before, if you adjust for cost of living, the NYC salaries are even worse, even if they are a higher dollar amount.
Not only that, NYC salaries, especially those in the financial sector, have stagnated. NYC is not the high salary panacea everyone on the LI forum believes it is. Perhaps they want to believe they could get on the slow train to the city and make the big bucks, but NYC does not pay like it used to. Many colleagues who have changed jobs in the last year or so reported taking laterals or actual pay cuts.
Frankly, whether you work on LI or in NYC, the metro area is a tough lifestyle for anyone to make a living. You have to ask yourself if all of the wear-and-tear is worth it. Well, is it?
One employer law firm based in Nassau county told me that if it weren't for hiring me and 2 secretaries, he would have put in an option of "no health benefits offered" on his job ad. Granted, this was before Obama care so he wasn't required to offer health benefits. His reasoning was "I run a lean practice, with 1 attorney for appearances, 1 paralegal for paper work, 2 secretaries to handle phone calls and office stuff, and my wife who handles human resources/payroll. I dont need to offer health insurance and paying for such policies if it hurts my bottom line".
An employer that doesn't offer health insurance is going to be very limited as to what employees it will be able to attract.
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Another aspect that probably goes unsaid with LI based salary negotiations is how being a woman can be a liability than an asset. At my old firm, we hired 5 secretaries over the span of 1 year because 2 of them got pregnant within 3 months of being hired and either quit on their own, or were laid off because they kept calling in sick, excuses to leave early all the time, etc. Employers want productive employees - not lazy women who get knocked up every few years and have to take maternity leave (I know I am knocking my own gender here, but I cant help but agree that if I had a child, I would likely put my career on hold too for a few months/years too). Some LI based employers actually target females for lower paid positions because their thinking is "oh she will get pregnant and quit, and then I can just hire her replacement for another 30K/yr and dont need to worry about giving her raises, etc".
All good points, and, as you said, not something politically correct for employers to talk about. But how is that unique to Long Island?
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As to your query about how employees increase the cost of coverage - it goes without saying that the more employees an employer has to cover (workers comp; health, etc) the more money they have to pay. Combine this with taxes, lease payment, and business related expenses - you can easily see why many smaller LI companies have to short their employees on 1 aspect, and that aspect is usually salary.
But, all other things being equal, wouldn't the Long Island firms have lower operating costs, since the lease on their buildings would cost far less than the least for a similar sized building in NYC?
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I don't think there are LI firms function under any belief that LI employees place a higher value on health ins than NYC employees. I think there could be some type of correlation between the average AGE of employees in LI vs. NYC though. I know in my early to late 20s, I didn't care about health insurance because I was healthy. I worked for many firms where health insurance wasn't offered or would only kick in after 3 months or more. At the time, I didn't care (I really should have, I was recently diagnosed with some health issues that had I known was important in catching "early" would have prevented needless surgery) but many employees may consider working closer to LI for a lower salary IF their health insurance benefits are better or cost less. Just a thought.
You may be right that NYC employees are younger in general than LI employees, and that the older LI employees place a higher weight on health insurance and vacation time than the younger NYC employees.
Maybe what is needed is more flexibility offered by both LI and NYC employers. Maybe LI employees can offer an option of a lower cost health insurance plan for people who want more money. Or maybe offer the option of selling back vacation time or working on certain holidays. I wouldn't personally take any of those options (maybe the lower cost health insurance), but some who are struggling to make it on LI might choose them. Similarly, maybe NYC employers can offer the option of a shorter (but still full time) workweek, extra vacation time, 4 day 10 hour workweek, higher quality health insurance, etc, for a lower salary. Taking these options would provide some middle ground between the people who say that they can't afford to live on LI with the salaries we are paid on LI, vs. the lifestyle of doing nothing but commuting, working, and sleeping that somebody working in NYC would have. The ideal scenario would be for NYC employers to pay enough for employees to be able to afford a 3 bedroom condo in the city, but that isn't likely to happen, which is why I argue that in real dollars, NYC firms pay even less than LI firms.
An employer that doesn't offer health insurance is going to be very limited as to what employees it will be able to attract..
Maybe but in my field (law), there is more competition amongst lawyers for entry level jobs than there are jobs available. I resigned from that firm a year later and I was then put in charge of hiring and training my replacement. I couldn't believe how many resumes flooded our mailbox from recent law grads w/ great resumes and schools (Boston U, Fordham, Cornell Law and Emory just to name a few). These people knew about the benefits and it didn't stop them, just like it didn't stop me. Some job applicants simply do not care. Small law firms don't traditionally hire the same way as larger firms that recruit at law schools, hence why competition is fierce for those jobs for recent law grads who fall outside the top 10-20% of their graduating class ...so benefits dont really factor that high on their priority list.
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Originally Posted by mitsguy2001
But, all other things being equal, wouldn't the Long Island firms have lower operating costs, since the lease on their buildings would cost far less than the least for a similar sized building in NYC?
Possibly but thats a big assumption that wont always hold true. Some office spaces in Garden City and Mineola charge top dollar, as much as NYC spaces - and there are some spaces in NYC that aren't that expensive..Its all relative. There are also many lawyers who don't lease a whole floor but split costs with other lawyers or firms which is a better financial deal for them since they can share costs of a large conference room, cable/phone hookups.
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Originally Posted by mitsguy2001
Maybe what is needed is more flexibility offered by both LI and NYC employers. Maybe LI employees can offer an option of a lower cost health insurance plan for people who want more money. Or maybe offer the option of selling back vacation time or working on certain holidays. I wouldn't personally take any of those options (maybe the lower cost health insurance), but some who are struggling to make it on LI might choose them. Similarly, maybe NYC employers can offer the option of a shorter (but still full time) workweek, extra vacation time, 4 day 10 hour workweek, higher quality health insurance, etc, for a lower salary. Taking these options would provide some middle ground between the people who say that they can't afford to live on LI with the salaries we are paid on LI, vs. the lifestyle of doing nothing but commuting, working, and sleeping that somebody working in NYC would have. The ideal scenario would be for NYC employers to pay enough for employees to be able to afford a 3 bedroom condo in the city, but that isn't likely to happen, which is why I argue that in real dollars, NYC firms pay even less than LI firms.
This is a nice idea but in a capitalistic country as ours, employers will always default to their bottom line - which is how much profit they can make without sacrificing quality of output, labor costs and supplies/resources. The fact is there are many jobs in NYC that pay very well, and you don't see the majority of those folks living in Manhattan either. Just looking at the bios of the folks who perished in the recent Metro North crash in Valhalla this week tells you that, they move to the suburbs not because of costs but because they cant afford NYC private school costs for their kids and/or they want a bigger house and yard.
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