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All sales in NY are "as-is" unless you specifically include those items you expect to be removed/repaired/remedied.
Listings are just listings, the accuracy of said listing is always subject to the buyer's due diligence. Typically you sign the contract and once the appraisal has been ordered and comes back ok your attorney will order a title search between that point and when the loan commitment is issued. May be earlier depending on the attorney and where the property is located. For instance Nassau can take up to a month to get a housing building search so the reports have to be ordered much earlier now.
After the search comes back and any co deficiencies are uncovered the standard contract requires seller to rectify this unless specifically addressed in the rider that they do not or that it is capped. Typical language attorneys try to sneak in is that co for sheds and decks are not required. Also like your deal, they try to cap the amount the seller has to expend for co remedies and/or repairs. They usually start at $1,000.00, your attorney counters at $5,000.00 and they settle on $2-3,000.00. Be careful. In NYC it's not a big deal but in Long Island it can be.
You can try to get an estimate from an expediter and have the seller give you a repair credit for that amount if he doesn't want to deal with it prior to closing and you really want the house. If there are missing co for the deck and shed I wouldn't be surprised if after the search comes back you see missing co for a bunch of other items too.
All sales in NY are "as-is" unless you specifically include those items you expect to be removed/repaired/remedied.
Listings are just listings, the accuracy of said listing is always subject to the buyer's due diligence. Typically you sign the contract and once the appraisal has been ordered and comes back ok your attorney will order a title search between that point and when the loan commitment is issued. May be earlier depending on the attorney and where the property is located. For instance Nassau can take up to a month to get a housing building search so the reports have to be ordered much earlier now.
After the search comes back and any co deficiencies are uncovered the standard contract requires seller to rectify this unless specifically addressed in the rider that they do not or that it is capped. Typical language attorneys try to sneak in is that co for sheds and decks are not required. Also like your deal, they try to cap the amount the seller has to expend for co remedies and/or repairs. They usually start at $1,000.00, your attorney counters at $5,000.00 and they settle on $2-3,000.00. Be careful. In NYC it's not a big deal but in Long Island it can be.
You can try to get an estimate from an expediter and have the seller give you a repair credit for that amount if he doesn't want to deal with it prior to closing and you really want the house. If there are missing co for the deck and shed I wouldn't be surprised if after the search comes back you see missing co for a bunch of other items too.
Only downside you will only get market value or above market value houses who will do this nonsense for you.
There are cash buyers or buyers with large down payments or banks/buyers who dont care.
My brother was a nervous nellie first time buyer 20 years ago and insisted on a CO for the deck. So he got it day before closing, seller was pissed he had to do this run around on a 15 year old deck. Anyhow around 18 months after he buys house his taxes goes up $500 bucks for deck. He calls town as they estimated at most it would be a $200 increase. Well it turns out while they were there they noticed he had central air and updated his property card so that also raised taxes.
My brother has now paid an extra $500 bucks a year for 20 years in taxes I can only imagine if he took that $500 bucks a year and put it in a S&P 500 fund every year how much extra cash he would have.
The CO and Permit thing is a wild card. Not getting it could be a massive mistake that could cost you or getting it like my brother could be a long slow sucking of money. My brother is going feet first out of his house so I have no clue why he cared that his estate might have to spend a few days getting a permit.
FYI I have all permits on my house. And I had a permit issue when I bought.
All sales in NY are "as-is" unless you specifically include those items you expect to be removed/repaired/remedied.
Listings are just listings, the accuracy of said listing is always subject to the buyer's due diligence. Typically you sign the contract and once the appraisal has been ordered and comes back ok your attorney will order a title search between that point and when the loan commitment is issued. May be earlier depending on the attorney and where the property is located. For instance Nassau can take up to a month to get a housing building search so the reports have to be ordered much earlier now.
After the search comes back and any co deficiencies are uncovered the standard contract requires seller to rectify this unless specifically addressed in the rider that they do not or that it is capped. Typical language attorneys try to sneak in is that co for sheds and decks are not required. Also like your deal, they try to cap the amount the seller has to expend for co remedies and/or repairs. They usually start at $1,000.00, your attorney counters at $5,000.00 and they settle on $2-3,000.00. Be careful. In NYC it's not a big deal but in Long Island it can be.
You can try to get an estimate from an expediter and have the seller give you a repair credit for that amount if he doesn't want to deal with it prior to closing and you really want the house. If there are missing co for the deck and shed I wouldn't be surprised if after the search comes back you see missing co for a bunch of other items too.
Aplogizes, I don't want to stray off topic from the OP, I have a similar situation I will be getting into soon. Is a title search necessary? What if the buyer and seller don't care about the non existing C/O's and don't use a lawyer since its a deal between relatives w/ a mortgage. Will the bank just go with it and avoid it as a previous poster mentioned we will be doing a larger down payment somewhere around 40%.
Aplogizes, I don't want to stray off topic from the OP, I have a similar situation I will be getting into soon. Is a title search necessary? What if the buyer and seller don't care about the non existing C/O's and don't use a lawyer since its a deal between relatives w/ a mortgage. Will the bank just go with it and avoid it as a previous poster mentioned we will be doing a larger down payment somewhere around 40%.
Depends on the bank and what needs a CO; a decks is easier - an extension, doubtful. The lender will look for a title search (and a title policy) since they have a vested interest in the property until the mortgage is paid off.
IMHO it's better to have an attorney review the documents.
If the shed is >144 sq ft it needs a CO. Height is more of an issue with garages.
If the deck is attached to the house -- whether 4' or 4" off the ground -- it requires a permit and applicable inspections for a CO.
Who knows if the seller has proper footings, framing, steps, rails, and spacing between rails? $1,000 for a 525 sq ft deck isn't nearly enough if there are deficiencies to correct *and* fees to pay to bring the deck into compliance, before even touching the shed.
The town code states something different.
Okay who would attach a 4" deck to a house, but I get your point. Anyway it lists detached sheds not decks.
It definitely mentions height on sheds in another section, but most sheds are less then 12'.
16-3
A. It shall be unlawful to construct, alter, remove, demolish or maintain, or to allow, commence or continue to maintain the alteration, removal, or demolition of a wall, structure, plumbing, building or any part thereof, without first filing an application in writing with the Town of Brookhaven Building Division and obtaining a formal written permit. A permit shall not be required for minor repairs to existing plumbing systems. When accessory to one- and two-family dwellings, a building permit shall not be required for the following: (1) Detached residential storage sheds not greater than 144 square feet and conforming to the provisions of § 85-57;
(2) Decks, patios and walkways not above grade greater than eight inches at any point, constructed of any material;
(3) Gazebos not greater than 144 square feet and with walls no higher than 36 inches;
(4) Trellises, pergolas and arbors not greater than 144 square feet;
Last edited by brianosaur; 03-06-2015 at 07:42 PM..
I resurfaced a cedar deck in Brookhaven a few years back with around the same dimensions as 35x15 and the materials cost alone was over $5,000. I got quotes to rebuild it from the ground up for around $20K in composite material. $1,000 gets you nothing other than demo costs.
Update: the seller has agreed to deliver the Deck's CO upon closing. My lawyers is adding a provision that if CO is not delivered an amount that is double of what the expediter determines will be held in escrow to ensure the seller delivers the CO.
I want to let you all know that at the beggining the seller's lawyer tried to exclude the deck from the CO obligation to see if they actually got away with it. With a deck that big 35x15 it is almost essential to have that thing legalized.
Now I appreciate one of your comments above stating that this process will increase taxes or that CO may not be up to current code which would open an entirely new conversation about demolition. Do you have any idea of how much would a tax increase be for a 35x15 deck?
In any event we are likely to enter into contract with the provision that CO needs to be delivered upon closing; otherwise enough money will be held in escrow.
Please share any additional thoughts you may have.
Thanks!
Last edited by Depeche101; 03-18-2015 at 06:19 PM..
Please help with the following:
- after offer made (Brookhaven Town) we discovered that deck (35x15) and metallic shed are without COs.
- seller says he only wants to limit his expense to $1,000 or demolish the deck
- this offer sounds ridiculous as 1) agent and listing did not disclose the absence of CO for these sections. 2) we like the house with deck and shed.
I do not want to deal with other people's issues at all. We have not signed a contract yet. We like the house but do not want to assume these issues. We are buying hoping everything is legit.
What should I do? How long does it take to get a CO for these sections. I want to take advantage of lower interest rates. I appreciate you time, experience and responses.
Thanks
It's usually not a problem unless you are selling or buying.
If you really want the house, make the sellers remedy the situation. A deck and a shed a good features. This is their problem.
Seller is now relying the message, through lawyer, of whether we are aware that making the CO legal may have a potential impact on taxes. I feel seller is trying to convince us to move into contract without requiring deck's CO. It is really annoying and it is kind of a red flag when we communicated clearly that we wanted the deck legal on closing or with an appropriate amount held in escrow.
Also, we had a agreed on a list of repairs that resulted from the inspection process. Now seller is unwilling to address one of those repairs (between $500 and $1000) and without lowering the price.
So considering the initial lack of disclosure on the deck's CO and continued push back on obtaining the CO for it and this other reluctance to repair something we had previously negotiated, I am getting annoyed and sensing a red flag already.
Now my lawyer is asking me whether I want to proceed or not based on the reluctance to complete the repair and under the understanding that we will ask for the deck's CO on closing or put enough money in escrow.
Do you have any thoughts or suggestions? Thanks so much for your great feedback.
The town code states something different.
Okay who would attach a 4" deck to a house, but I get your point. Anyway it lists detached sheds not decks.
(2) Decks, patios and walkways not above grade greater than eight inches at any point, constructed of any material;
;
The material used in construction of the deck could easily exceed the stipulated 8" above the grade (building on a level grade.) A 10" joist alone exceeds that, and chances are, that's what was used on the deck that is one of the issues for the OP.
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