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In Queens, you will not need a car so you'll be saving a lot there as far as gas, maintenance, and insurance are concerned (and a car payment if you have one)
If you plan on having children, you will want to live in the 5 boroughs.... there is much, much more opportunity for them than you will ever get on LI. On LI, you go to the school in your district. There are no specialized schools if they are interested in a particular field and there are certainly no colleges that give pre-college or courses for middle and high school students.
Don't buy into the BS of "the kids need a backyard to play in". Give me a break. That old war call is so ingrained in people they don't even realize how stupid they sound when they say it. How often do your kids get to "play in the backyard"? They won't. Why? They'll be dumped in a daycare for 12 hours a day while you and your spouse are busting your butts working to pay all the LI Expenses and, on the weekends, you'll be running to Costco and everything else just to get your errands done so you can maybe rest a bit on Sunday before going back to work.
Another thing: Culture. LIs idea of culture is malls and Chuck E Cheeses. Additionally, the only aquarium they have is all the way out in Riverhead and it is a complete rip off.
I would choose Queens over Long Island any day of the week!
Wow, none of this is true. We bought a house with a smallish backyard (big L deck) and need it to be bigger. We are relegated to having to drive to a park to get them running around. We have friends from the city who move here because of the schools and property sizes. One who is about to move currently has to take the bus 45 minutes just to bring him to a daycare (for the socializing experience), wait around 3 hours, and take him back home. She used to be big on culture but THAT is bs if you don't actually bring the kid everywhere to experience it - it's just not very easy to do so.
Many friends living in either Brooklyn or Queens have cars and need them too, especially weekends. Not everyone works like a maniac and has no time for their kids. We have too much time for the kids here and it's difficult to limit them from playing video games all winter because we can't go outside. They are doing 2 indoor sports for 4 nights a week, and soon to be 4 for 6 days. They LOVE it and while that sounds like a lot, it's only 30-60 minutes each. That doesn't happen in the city for obvious reasons. When the weather is nice, the list of things to do is a mile long and even city friends come in to join us. I grew up in Queens myself and even then we had a car, and "needed" it because it made things so much easier. Who wants to lug 10-15 bags of groceries on the train/bus and go by schedules? Who wants to wait at bus stops in the winter? Christ... technically you don't "need" a car on LI either if you thought that way.
If you are a family, LI is easily the better option for the kids. When it's all said and done, compare what my kids have done growing up and what city kids have done - then tell me who had a better childhood. This doesn't even touch on education disparity. One reason some friends don't move here is because they like staying closer to work. Another is they mostly grew up in the city and never experienced suburbia so they've never even entertained the idea. They don't have the kids' best interests in mind, but you can't blame them.
I actually did the math on this a year back I took a 500k home w/ taxes of 13k in Nassau County vs a 800k w/ 3k in taxes in queens. I did the the calculation over 15 years and assumed a 2% tax increase per year and assumed a 100k salary(this is low for 2 but easy for math)
City and Property tax after 15 years 2% increase yearly
LI taxes $212,494
Queens - $49,036 taxes +$91,000 city tax = $140,306
Mortgage interest based on 30yr fixed at 4%
LI - 300k loan 200k down - $215,608.52 interest
Queens - 500k loan 300k down - $359,347.53 interest
Total principal+interest+taxes+city tax (doubles 15yrs of taxes)
LI - $1,140,596
Queens - $1,439,959
Savings LI = $299,363
Soft Costs over 30 years LIRR, Water, Car Ins (Home insurance is close so lets call it even)
LI - Lirr - $375avg currently $276 zone 7. - $135,000
Queens car insurance increase over LI = $30,000
Queens water increase over LI = $30,000
= $75,000 savings in queens, if you don't take LIRR this changes.
$299,363LI - $75,000queens = $224,363 savings in long island
you sell after 30 years assume 35% increase queens $1,080,000 and 25%LI $625,000 + 224,363 savings = $849,363 if no LIRR $979,363
Total after 30 years with sale
w/ lirr $230,637 cheaper in queens. -$32k savings on realtor fee in LI = $198,637
w/o lirr $100,637 -$32k savings on realtor fee in LI = $68,637
Also not factored in is any increase to salary so if you avg 125k over 30 years that's 25k more in city tax. Also the $$ you would save upfront on your down payment plus long term in interest in LI if invest should yield you profits.
In the end you do what makes you happy the taxes/fees etc will get you either way and in the long run from a financial standpoint the money isn't that far off from being even.
We lived in a good, safe area of Brooklyn, and my kids went to one of the top elementary schools there, yet, they thank us every day for making the move to Long Island, and yes, they do play in the backyard and for that matter, the front yard, with other kids from the block, they can walk to school, and while I do work long hours (I worked these long hours when we lived in Brooklyn as well, just the nature of the industry and my position), at least, we are able to afford one spouse at home who takes care of all the household stuff and kids. I love living on LI, my only concern is whether my kids will be able to afford it some day, I do see a lot of families who make a lot less than we do still staying put, many are living in their parents homes, which have been paid off, and many have bought back in the early 1990's when the houses were relatively affordable.
In Queens, you will not need a car so you'll be saving a lot there as far as gas, maintenance, and insurance are concerned (and a car payment if you have one)
If you plan on having children, you will want to live in the 5 boroughs.... there is much, much more opportunity for them than you will ever get on LI. On LI, you go to the school in your district. There are no specialized schools if they are interested in a particular field and there are certainly no colleges that give pre-college or courses for middle and high school students.
Don't buy into the BS of "the kids need a backyard to play in". Give me a break. That old war call is so ingrained in people they don't even realize how stupid they sound when they say it. How often do your kids get to "play in the backyard"? They won't. Why? They'll be dumped in a daycare for 12 hours a day while you and your spouse are busting your butts working to pay all the LI Expenses and, on the weekends, you'll be running to Costco and everything else just to get your errands done so you can maybe rest a bit on Sunday before going back to work.
Another thing: Culture. LIs idea of culture is malls and Chuck E Cheeses. Additionally, the only aquarium they have is all the way out in Riverhead and it is a complete rip off.
I would choose Queens over Long Island any day of the week!
I actually did the math on this a year back I took a 500k home w/ taxes of 13k in Nassau County vs a 800k w/ 3k in taxes in queens. I did the the calculation over 15 years and assumed a 2% tax increase per year and assumed a 100k salary(this is low for 2 but easy for math)
City and Property tax after 15 years 2% increase yearly
LI taxes $212,494
Queens - $49,036 taxes +$91,000 city tax = $140,306
Mortgage interest based on 30yr fixed at 4%
LI - 300k loan 200k down - $215,608.52 interest
Queens - 500k loan 300k down - $359,347.53 interest
Total principal+interest+taxes+city tax (doubles 15yrs of taxes)
LI - $1,140,596
Queens - $1,439,959
Savings LI = $299,363
You forgot to include the fact that during that time your house value in Queens would increase by like $1 million over the LI house. I know multiple people who stayed put in Brooklyn and didn't move to LI. Once their kids grew up, they sold their houses that they bought for 80k-120k back 20 years ago for $5-10 million now... and just straight up retired early to Florida and North Carolina.
[quote=Gantz;38792252]You forgot to include the fact that during that time your house value in Queens would increase by like $1 million over the LI house. I know multiple people who stayed put in Brooklyn and didn't move to LI. Once their kids grew up, they sold their houses that they bought for 80k-120k back 20 years ago for $5-10 million now... and just straight up retired early to Florida and North Carolina.[/quote]
Depends on the neighborhood and whether it gentrified fast enough to cause significant property appreciation. My parents property in Queens hasnt budged in value that much in the past 10 years, and almost 80% of the new people moving into my parents area are ex-Brooklynites. I also own a rental property near them in south Queens and the value of condos and co-ops in that town have plummeted at least 20% since I bought in 10 years ago, and still have remained flat the past 5 years. I think Queens is becoming a lot more uneven in property prices. Nice homes in Malba, Bayside, Whitestone will continue to accrue value and jump up while certain homes in Woodside, Jamaica, Ozone Park will either stay the same or decrease.
So judging by gx89's math post it seems that it's a wash either way. Queens might be a BIT cheaper over the 30 year period but not by much
I suppose the benefits of living in Queens is if you work in Manhattan you would definitely have a shorter commute and save on LIRR fees, but you would also have less property.
Now, this is assuming that you own a HOUSE, not a condo or co-op with no property.
Also factor in Queens NYC taxes 3-4% of your gross salary per year on an average 80K salary lets say thats $3200 per year in city income tax.
And I forgot to mention I was thinking more along the areas of say Whitestone, Bayside, Fresh Meadows or Kew Gardens the "nicer" areas as opposed to south ozone park, south Jamaica, or Richmond hill.
But then you miss all the character building of such experiences!!
(seriously, the fact that I spent 2 hours commuting to my Queens HS and naturally developed a strong "street smart" view of life made me appreciate my strong work ethic compared to some of my coddled and lazy college classmates who whined about not having a lacrosse field only a 10 minute walk from their bedroom. All because mommy and daddy wanted their teenage years to be so "easy". )
yea no....I found absolutely nothing "character building" about dodging the perverts who would expose themselves to groups of girls on the subway or rub up against us...this was apparantly a "thing" in the 90's.
We did the same math and decided to move from a top district in queens (26) to Long Island. We do not pay city tax any more, we get a lot for the property taxes we pay out here. The taxes are insane but we enjoy our property and town. if we bought in queens we would have a much much larger mortgage loan balance. The subway is sickening actually. If I never have to set foot on a subway again, I would be thrilled.
We needed a car no matter where we chose to live. We drive Into the city with our family 2-3 times a month.
Living here is so much easier than being in the city.
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