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It's not hard for me. I'm working with the numbers you gave me. They're not my numbers. You asked required. I gave them. And I don't think that with your numbers and your daycare costs that you are saving. It looked like you're able to have about a little over $300/month to go towards savings/college/IRA/extras? I also find it hard to believe you're at $450/month for four people in groceries. Unless they're babies. In which case, those costs do rise. Same with electric. And yours may need braces. And wait until you're taxiing them to sports/sleepovers.
The $125k is hypothetical and doesn't apply to us. What I was saying is that even with that number we could put away some of it given our expenses. Throw in a daycare cost (again temporary) of $2k for those who need it, adding to my $1600 and it's still under $4k. Once daycare is gone, you can save even more (huge relief regardless of income).
We do spend only $450/mo. shopping for food but my kids are under 10. I fully expect it to rise, but then so would your salary after those years. Electric going up $100, no big deal. We already do 4 sports so the costs when time limits them to fewer will still be about the same. Even so, it's not required.
Did anyone even verify if $125k gross comes out to about $7k/mo. net? It's very possible it's more and you don't have to have a $3k mortgage either. The avg looks closer to $2k so far on the poll.
I think people are overestimating these annual figures, especially when you convert it to monthly amounts even with taxes taken out. Wage and Salary Conversion Calculator
$150k is $12,500 per month gross. After fed/state taxes (some even going to retirement funds), say $8k is left , mortgage at $3k, leaving $5k to spend a month. You have groceries, utilities, etc. I don't think adding internet, tv, and eating out once or twice a week is going to cut into that figure much at all.
Even at $125k annual, $10.4k per month gross, you have maybe $7k left after fed/state taxes, mortgage of $3k, leaving $4k to spend a month.
Unless you have student loans and other debt like a large car lease, it's not hard to do it on $125k. Am I missing any large monthly payments?
Think it completely depends on the area. With 2 working parents in my neighborhood, I say you need 200k annually to be MC. Property taxes are now over 1,000 a month for my postage stamp lot. 2 working parents need full time summer camp, if you need 8-6 pm with a bus that will cost you thousands JUST for the summer. During the school year you are paying before and after care. Our grocery bills are 600 a month, minimum. Many people have skyrocketing Health insurance premiums and deductibles that take a big chunk out of the budget. Most people also have 1-2 car leases/ payments
If one parent is home with kids, or has grandparents babysitting for free, could be comfortable on less than the 200k I stated earlier.
The $125k is hypothetical and doesn't apply to us. What I was saying is that even with that number we could put away some of it given our expenses. Throw in a daycare cost (again temporary) of $2k for those who need it, adding to my $1600 and it's still under $4k. Once daycare is gone, you can save even more (huge relief regardless of income).
We do spend only $450/mo. shopping for food but my kids are under 10. I fully expect it to rise, but then so would your salary after those years. Electric going up $100, no big deal. We already do 4 sports so the costs when time limits them to fewer will still be about the same. Even so, it's not required.
Did anyone even verify if $125k gross comes out to about $7k/mo. net? It's very possible it's more and you don't have to have a $3k mortgage either.
Ok, I'm following you.
I think if you have a stay at home parent and two kids, your theory can work. Because I just don't think that, even with your numbers inserted, it's allowing for anything other than surviving. It leaves no room for savings and auto repairs or purchase. Salaries don't increase as fast as the utilities/child costs do.
Think it completely depends on the area. With 2 working parents in my neighborhood, I say you need 200k annually to be MC. Property taxes are now over 1,000 a month for my postage stamp lot. 2 working parents need full time summer camp, if you need 8-6 pm with a bus that will cost you thousands JUST for the summer. During the school year you are paying before and after care. Our grocery bills are 600 a month, minimum. Many people have skyrocketing Health insurance premiums and deductibles that take a big chunk out of the budget. Most people also have 1-2 car leases/ payments
If one parent is home with kids, or has grandparents babysitting for free, could be comfortable on less than the 200k I stated earlier.
I heard on the radio today that in order to live a middle class lifestyle in Suffolk County, you need an annual income of $88,000, and in order to live a middle class lifestyle in Nassau County, you need an annual income of $98,000. Based on that, I can live a middle class lifestyle in Suffolk County but not in Nassau County.
My question is: does anybody know how they define "middle class lifestyle"? Everybody on this forum seems to have a different definition, so I'm just wondering if there is any official definition.
$88,000 or $98,000 is far from middle class on Long Island. I lived on Long Island most of my life and in 2004 I bought a home in Stony Brook. I was earning $130,000 and was priced out. Our taxes were $20,000. Dream on. There are more reasonable states than NY. Don't get caught up in "NY is the only place to live." We moved to NE Ohio and for under $200,000, you can live the "life of Riley". I really wished we moved to Ohio back in 2004. We could have bought our home for cash and still have $150,000 left.
Last edited by SeventhFloor; 04-05-2015 at 12:32 PM..
All the people here who describe "middle class" as not having to worry about bills - I've always thought that described "affluent". To me middle class is being able to pay your bills, and possibly own your home, as well as having some time during the year for leisure. I do think that $88K seems a trifle low when you take housing costs, property taxes and electric costs into account. With roughly $36K going to PITI, another roughly $25K to state and federal taxes, that would leave about $2,250/month for everything else: auto, utilities, commuting costs, food, medical, dental, insurance. My utilities are huge on Long Island, running around $5K in the last 12 months not including phone or internet. Which would leave me about $1,800/month for everything else. My medical insurance for a family of 4 is quite low at $700/month, so now I would have a little less than $1,100 for groceries, commuting, car, etc. My car is 8 years old, my husband's is 11, and insuring those 2 cars is roughly $250/month, so now we are down to $850 for groceries, commuting, and any other purchases we might need. That would leave pretty much nothing for savings, so we would end up financing the next car , leaving roughly $450 for groceries, commuting and any other purchases we would need. We both have cell phones but not a data plan, but that would cut into that $450 leaving less than $400/month for a family of 4 to eat.
Think it completely depends on the area. With 2 working parents in my neighborhood, I say you need 200k annually to be MC. Property taxes are now over 1,000 a month for my postage stamp lot. 2 working parents need full time summer camp, if you need 8-6 pm with a bus that will cost you thousands JUST for the summer. During the school year you are paying before and after care. Our grocery bills are 600 a month, minimum. Many people have skyrocketing Health insurance premiums and deductibles that take a big chunk out of the budget. Most people also have 1-2 car leases/ payments
If one parent is home with kids, or has grandparents babysitting for free, could be comfortable on less than the 200k I stated earlier.
I think personal situations can wildly vary on this, like not everyone had high health insurance premiums (or any at all), not everyone needs aftercare etc. it certainly can add up if you do have all of those expenses though. Still I think 200k is high balling it for simply 'middle class' on LI, for most I think 200k is more around where you can start to live pretty comfortably. But there are so many different situations your mileage may vary.
2 working parents need full time summer camp, if you need 8-6 pm with a bus that will cost you thousands JUST for the summer. During the school year you are paying before and after care. .
ovi8 works at home so I'm curious what he does for before/after care and summers or is he able to just keep them home with him. Those are very large expenses (especially summer vacation care).
I think that for people our age who have been established for a while etc, it can be doable. Property taxes are the killer. It's the coming generation that has a huge burden on them - $100K is a 20% down payment for a pretty much crappy house and a crappy commute for a decent paying job and even then your housing expense isn't going to be fixed every year because of taxes. For us it was going to be a race against time to get our youngest out of HS before our taxes became completely unmanageable. Said child is finishing up 5th grade and taxes on our old house are $15K. No way could we afford to pay $20K a year in taxes, I will freely admit it - and that's where they will be in another 7 years when she's a senior.
All the SAHMs on my old block have gone back to work, just to pay the differential on their mortgage caused by the huge jump in taxes since they bought their home. One of my friends here has a friend on LI whose taxes went to $28K this year and the woman is scrambling to find a job (she hasn't worked in at least 20 years) to help pay the offset.
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