Long Island Jewish teen makes history

[VA Yankee]

Originally Posted by Coney

Well, I agree with you in that West Point is not a common career choice for students from those schools and that is the main point of the story. But others have pointed out the obstacles to that type of career and my point is that one can maintain their relgious beliefs because there is some pliability, yet maintain their other patriotic secular beliefs in a desire to serve their country. It's been done before in various branches of the military and it is possible. We also do not know what kind of assignment she will eventually have plus I had heard from others that her intent was to eventually go to medical school. And again, I was pointing out to you that she attended a modern orthodox school, which is not the same type of education that students from the upstate Satmar communties receive. You were the one to lump her in with the Monsey crowd and something tells me since you appear to be fairly unfamilar with Judiasm, that you had little exposure to Orthodox Jews, or were not privy or aware how they maintained religious continuity during your deployment, if you did have interactment with observant Jews at all during your service. Still, we are all very grateful for your sacrifices for your service. From the article, it sounds as if the student's school is very proud of her nor are they discouraging her from attending West Point because of any relgious conflict. Remember, as a West Point grad, she will have certain options that may have not been available to you. Also, if you ever get a chance to visit West Point, there is a very famous Jewish Chapel for West Point Cadets and there is a student organization, as well. Office of Chaplains - Jewish Chapel

First you are not the OP of this topic but you seem to feel it is your responsibility to educate the suspect goy on this board as to what/how one can be an observant Jew while attending West Point. There has been no allegations made that one couldn't be Jewish in the armed forces what was stated is the challenge of maintaining Kosher in the real world environment of the military, that is reality not speculation. As for future assignments in her career nothing has been mentioned but like any solder she is eligible to be assigned based on the needs of the Army.

I said in a later post that military service is not a normal career path for an orthodox yeshiva graduate, eliminate that and she is a soon to be graduate who got accepted to west point. I commend her and all the others who are committing to our service academy's.

I have made no mention of Monsey, I mentioned New Square which is on the edge of Spring Valley and as a community should be bulldozed as a public health hazard but this is not the topic to delve into that. Your assumption on my familiarity with Judaism or my exposure to the orthodox sects is completely off the mark. I grew up down the road from New Square and have had more than my fill of them and the "Monsey Crowd" as you refer to them.

As for a Jewish Chapel at West Point it's about time I see where it wasn't open till 84, at least the Naval Base in Norfolk always had one and a full time Rabbi. You assume because there are all these organizations and links on the internet that you can do as you've always done but when your on a ship for 6 months in the Persian Gulf or a tent some where in the desert for 6 months trying to maintain a specific dietary custom is just about impossible. She will make her choices how she'll proceed once these situations are in her path, that will be her choice.

[Coney]

Originally Posted by VA Yankee

First you are not the OP of this topic but you seem to feel it is your responsibility to educate the suspect goy on this board as to what/how one can be an observant Jew while attending West Point. There has been no allegations made that one couldn't be Jewish in the armed forces what was stated is the challenge of maintaining Kosher in the real world environment of the military, that is reality not speculation. As for future assignments in her career nothing has been mentioned but like any solder she is eligible to be assigned based on the needs of the Army.

I said in a later post that military service is not a normal career path for an orthodox yeshiva graduate, eliminate that and she is a soon to be graduate who got accepted to west point. I commend her and all the others who are committing to our service academy's.

I have made no mention of Monsey, I mentioned New Square which is on the edge of Spring Valley and as a community should be bulldozed as a public health hazard but this is not the topic to delve into that. Your assumption on my familiarity with Judaism or my exposure to the orthodox sects is completely off the mark. I grew up down the road from New Square and have had more than my fill of them and the "Monsey Crowd" as you refer to them.

As for a Jewish Chapel at West Point it's about time I see where it wasn't open till 84, at least the Naval Base in Norfolk always had one and a full time Rabbi. You assume because there are all these organizations and links on the internet that you can do as you've always done but when your on a ship for 6 months in the Persian Gulf or a tent some where in the desert for 6 months trying to maintain a specific dietary custom is just about impossible. She will make her choices how she'll proceed once these situations are in her path, that will be her choice.

And you presume that I am getting all of my information from the internet, which I am not. I am just putting them in my post to back up my statements. I know where Monsey is located,as well as New Square and you have made your disdain for these communities, as well as observant Jews, very obvious from your first snarky post. I mentioned the Chapel at West Point, as well as other chapels in military academies, not bases or posts. Apples to apples. I can assure you that this student will manage just fine with her observance of Torah, along with her avaible selections for nutritional sources. One thing that we do agree on is that anyone who gets accepted at West Point should be commended so let's just leave it at that and be proud that one of our own is gettting recognition for an accomplishment that is a positive reflection of Long Island.

[Pruzhany]

Originally Posted by VA Yankee

You know what, best of luck to her maybe she will be able to live eating a vegetarian diet and get through while at the school house. Speaking from my own military career experiences good luck trying to stick to it once you are assigned to an operational unit especially one that is forward deployed. As for the availability of a Jewish Chaplains yes they exist but I can count on one hand how many times in 20 years one was assigned to the base I was stationed at.

Lets look at what the OP posted " first female Orthodox Yeshiva student to go to West Point" this is not a regular career choice for these students. Flexibility of the faith or athletes who live vegetarian are not the issue the story is about an Orthodox Yeshiva graduate, one who keeps kosher take those away and she is a graduate who got accepted to West Point, end of story.

As a former US Marine in the early 80's, it may not be spoken of but it is done. If one is assigned to an operational unit especially one that is forward deployed then one adjusts for it as an IDF soldier does in Israel.

As to the full time schools (Yeshiva) in NYS, they are going to be ran at a bare minimum as Modern Orthodox. They are not a NYS public school with Hebrew and Torah studies simply thrown in.

[VA Yankee]

Originally Posted by Pruzhany

As a former US Marine in the early 80's, it may not be spoken of but it is done. If one is assigned to an operational unit especially one that is forward deployed then one adjusts for it as an IDF soldier does in Israel.

As to the full time schools (Yeshiva) in NYS, they are going to be ran at a bare minimum as Modern Orthodox. They are not a NYS public school with Hebrew and Torah studies simply thrown in.

I agree with you during my career in the Navy starting in the late 70's you did what was required and the ability to accommodate specific eating customs was not doable when you were on a ship. I would have thought that if anyone the IDF would have kosher (style) food available....

[VA Yankee]

Originally Posted by Coney

And you presume that I am getting all of my information from the internet, which I am not. I am just putting them in my post to back up my statements. I know where Monsey is located,as well as New Square and you have made your disdain for these communities, as well as observant Jews, very obvious from your first snarky post. I mentioned the Chapel at West Point, as well as other chapels in military academies, not bases or posts. Apples to apples. I can assure you that this student will manage just fine with her observance of Torah, along with her avaible selections for nutritional sources. One thing that we do agree on is that anyone who gets accepted at West Point should be commended so let's just leave it at that and be proud that one of our own is gettting recognition for an accomplishment that is a positive reflection of Long Island.

I stand by my first post, there have always been people of Jewish faith in the service but not Orthodox ones because of the conflicts/challenges of trying to maintain their practices. This isn't snarky just fact. I will agree I have a distain for communities in Rockland sorry I don't admire them as you appear to.
When I was in high school the recruiters were talking to the Rabbi's just trying to get Jewish guys to enlist because going into the military is not normally a consideration. As for the chapel at WP they finally opened it in 84 before that there was no dedicated facility, fact. How the student maintains her religious studies will be up to her I made no statement on that but how she remains kosher, that will be a challenge.

[Pruzhany]

Originally Posted by VA Yankee

I agree with you during my career in the Navy starting in the late 70's you did what was required and the ability to accommodate specific eating customs was not doable when you were on a ship. I would have thought that if anyone the IDF would have kosher (style) food available....

Originally Posted by VA Yankee

...How the student maintains her religious studies will be up to her I made no statement on that but how she remains kosher, that will be a challenge.

FWIW
There are different levels of Kosher.

http://www.elgauchoglatt.com/el-gauc...-glatt-kosher/

Israel itself is extremely more vegetable oriented, then it is meat oriented. At the basic level you will not find milk products served with meat products. Also its pretty rare to find pork products in Israel.

Personally I've never eaten pork & have never had a cheeseburger. My kosherness is extremely basic so at a minimum I purchase products that have the OU symbol on them. As to the meats there is no real choice in my current location so I go to one of the few Hallel locations to purchase those.

As to the military, for the most part I was a vegetarian and I never ate red meat (only certain parts of a cow are Kosher and not the entire cow). Eating chicken was okay depending on ones gray area (how it was killed). Prayer wise, I was friendly with the Muslims so we did coverage for each other even if it was a closet or a tent. Even when we were sent to Lebanon, we did pretty well even under those circumstances.

As to her studies past HS that are Judaism related, for women there are none required. So anything further is done by choice only.

[Pruzhany]

How about we complete drop the Ultra Orthodox (Upstate NY, NYC, etc) as 99% of them will not join the military.

[Coney]

Originally Posted by VA Yankee

I stand by my first post, there have always been people of Jewish faith in the service but not Orthodox ones because of the conflicts/challenges of trying to maintain their practices. This isn't snarky just fact. I will agree I have a distain for communities in Rockland sorry I don't admire them as you appear to.
When I was in high school the recruiters were talking to the Rabbi's just trying to get Jewish guys to enlist because going into the military is not normally a consideration. As for the chapel at WP they finally opened it in 84 before that there was no dedicated facility, fact. How the student maintains her religious studies will be up to her I made no statement on that but how she remains kosher, that will be a challenge.

I neither admire nor condemn the Ultra-Orthodox communities. I don't think it's my place to make those kind of judgements, but I certainly wouldn't make presumptions about anyone without having a thorough understanding of their viewpoint. I think you are missing the point. There are have been chapels and accommodations for Jews and other minorities because as you stated, they have been serving in the miltary whether through a draft or on a voluntary basis for centuries. The establishment of a venue for religious worship fulfilled a need that was already there. There was no need for a chapel in an elite military academy until fairly recently because the doors were closed to certain minorities and were only opened very, very slowly.

What makes this story so remarkable is not so much that this girl applied to West Point, but that she was accepted for admission. West Point, with its long history of accepting cadets based on family legacy, has been slowly opening its doors over the years to nontraditional applicants, breaking barriers. Over the years many accommodations and changes were made psychologically and structurallly when the doors were opened to women. The accommodations and changes have been a long-term difficult process. Who remembers the news story about the Citadel? The same process will be applied to other minorities who desire entry into these types of institutions. That desire has been around, but entry has not. Attitudes are changing and West Point is to be commended for having a more open outlook on who can be part of their club.

You are proibably only in your 40s so too young to remember the emotional impact when the doors were opened to groups who were barred from certain institutions since the beginning of time. When my cousin was the second woman to be accepted at one of the Ivy League colleges, it was a really big deal at the time and her name was all over the media. Today, we take such things for granted.

Through various intermarriages, my family is religiously diverse, Catholics both practicing and lapsed, Muslims, Jews ranging from ultra-Orthodox to secular,Messianic Jews for Jesus and everything in between, Scandanavian Lutherans. I find it all very interesting and to the best of my ability, try to see the different perspectives from their side. The food is great.

[VA Yankee]

Originally Posted by Coney

What makes this story so remarkable is not so much that this girl applied to West Point, but that she was accepted for admission. West Point, with its long history of accepting cadets based on family legacy, has been slowly opening its doors over the years to nontraditional applicants, breaking barriers. Over the years many accommodations and changes were made psychologically and structurallly when the doors were opened to women.

You are proibably only in your 40s so too young to remember the emotional impact when the doors were opened to groups who were barred from certain institutions since the beginning of time. When my cousin was the second woman to be accepted at one of the Ivy League colleges, it was a really big deal at the time and her name was all over the media. Today, we take such things for granted.

Service academies have been slow in accepting woman just as congress continues to restrict what areas they may serve in. Even during my career the "legacies" were beginning to be less of a presence than years past but were still a presence. After all they were genetically determined to be exceptional leaders..

This young ladies acceptance to West Point is the accomplishment just as it is for all those chosen to enter the academies this summer. Where she graduated HS from just makes the story because these students do not normally choose a military career.

For the record I am well in my 50's the 40's are just a memory...