Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
And we can in fact say that alcohol impairs driving, 100% fact. Agreed?
The driver was impaired by alcohol, thus alcohol DID play a role in the accident. 100% fact.
You and bigstigs both are giving the benefit of the doubt to the drunk driver (like I said earlier which bigstigs tried to deny). You're saying alcohol had absolutely NOTHING to do with the crash.
I'm saying its possible that alcohol had absolutely nothing to do with the crash.
Again, if the actions of the limo driver resulted in a situation where the result would have been the same irrespective of the driver's level of sobriety, then alcohol had nothing to do with the crash.
I'm saying its possible that alcohol had absolutely nothing to do with the crash.
Again, if the actions of the limo driver resulted in a situation where the result would have been the same irrespective of the driver's level of sobriety, then alcohol had nothing to do with the crash.
And we'll have no way of ever knowing that (nor is it really relevant in this case) because the DRIVER WAS IMPAIRED BY ALCOHOL!
Again, you're giving benefit of the doubt to the drunk driver...
Last edited by Howard Beale; 07-29-2015 at 10:22 AM..
And we'll have no way of ever knowing that (nor is it really relevant in this case) because the DRIVER WAS IMPAIRED BY ALCOHOL!
Again, why would the benefit of the doubt ever go to the drunk driver?
Not taking sides but...alcohol affects everybody differently.
My wife on 2 beers can barely stand up. On a 12 pack I can still drive, operate heavy equipment, solve Rubicks Cube, win a game of "Operation", pluck a chicken, shave a horse, and thread a needle.
So, a 250lb dude blowing a .08 or whatever the law is, may not be as drunk as you think, especially if he was at the bar eating pizza and buffalo wings all night. I guess.
Maybe, I don't know. Whatever.
And we'll have no way of ever knowing that (nor is it really relevant in this case) because the DRIVER WAS IMPAIRED BY ALCOHOL!
Again, you're giving benefit of the doubt to the drunk driver...
Giving the benefit of the doubt to the truck driver is preferable to convicting him without knowing the facts.
Giving the benefit of the doubt to the truck driver is preferable to convicting him without knowing the facts.
Maybe preferable for an alcohol or regular DWI/DWAI driver, or the defense lawyer, yes. Not for the rest of society. Sorry, pal. There are enough facts to determine the truck driver t-boned a limo, killed 4 of the passengers, while he was impaired by alcohol.
Maybe preferable for an alcohol or regular DWI/DWAI driver, or the defense lawyer, yes. Not for the rest of society. Sorry, pal. There are enough facts to determine the truck driver t-boned a limo, killed 4 of the passengers, while he was impaired by alcohol.
A truck driver t-boned a limo. You have no idea what proximately caused the accident whether alcohol was a factor. You do not even know to what degree he was impaired by alcohol or whether he was over the legal limit.
It seems very likely that the limo driver has a high level of culpability here once one considers the eye-witness testimony. While the truck driver is likely guilty of DWAI or even DWI it is far from clear whether he really had any hand in causing the accident himself. They may both be at fault.
If I'm driving down the road at 50 MPH (within the legal limit) with the right of way and suddenly and unexpectedly a car pulls directly in front of me, I am likely to slam on the brakes (as did the truck driver) but still t-bone it despite being stone cold sober.
Moreover, your proposed idea that it is better to convict the driver without knowing the facts because he had consumed an unknown amount of alcohol and subsequently passed a breathalyzer is better for "the rest of society" is absurd. Consumption of an unspecified alcohol prior to driving should not deprive people of their basic right to the presumption of innocence that has existed since the 6th Century and is one of the founding principles of this county. If you want to pass judgment and get out your pitchfork, please feel free to do so. I'd rather wait until all of the facts are revealed before passing judgment.
What you're saying is we should give drunk drivers the benefit of the doubt when they're involved in a crash. That we should assume the alcohol played no part in it. People get cutoff every single day. We've all experienced it, both as the cutoff driver and the driver who did the cutting off.
No one's saying the limo driver isn't partly at fault [for the accident]. Most sober people will react to something unexpected through evasive maneuvers. (or at the very least lessen the severity of the accident if unavoidable).
When someone drives with enough alcohol in them to surpass .08 BAC, they are impaired and cannot react like a normal driver can. When they get behind the wheel like this they are statistically much much more likely to be involved in a fatal crash. They are unnecessarily skyrocketing the chances of killing someone else or themselves in a crash. These are facts, not some opinions in a crappy newspaper.
Some stats:
About 31% of fatal car accidents involve a drunk driver and about 1/3rd of accidents involve alcohol. From the stats I could find, around 3% of drivers on the road are driving impaired on average.
Do you think it's a coincidence that such a small percentage of drivers account for nearly ONE-THIRD of auto fatalities?
Why have we still not seen the alcohol level of the limo driver? What made him turn directly in front of a red truck in broad daylight?
A truck driver t-boned a limo. You have no idea what proximately caused the accident whether alcohol was a factor. You do not even know to what degree he was impaired by alcohol or whether he was over the legal limit.
It seems very likely that the limo driver has a high level of culpability here once one considers the eye-witness testimony. While the truck driver is likely guilty of DWAI or even DWI it is far from clear whether he really had any hand in causing the accident himself. They may both be at fault. Agreed 100%
If I'm driving down the road at 50 MPH (within the legal limit) with the right of way and suddenly and unexpectedly a car pulls directly in front of me, I am likely to slam on the brakes (as did the truck driver) but still t-bone it despite being stone cold sober.
The eyewitness saw the limo pull out in front of pick up, but I do not recall reading how far the pick up was/wasn't from the intersection when the accident occurred. Going along with what you've written, sober, impaired, or drunk, the driver of the pick up had to see the limo and then react. Like you, my impulse would have been to slam on the brakes if someone cut in front of me. As the chart below indicates, it would take a number of feet for me to come to a complete stop. Assuming the pick up driver was doing the speed limit for that stretch, 55 mph, he would have needed at least 200 feet to stop if he were stone cold sober, more as he was impaired.
Given the damage, it would appear the limo driver cut out in front of the truck within that 200' span, if not less.
Moreover, your proposed idea that it is better to convict the driver without knowing the facts because he had consumed an unknown amount of alcohol and subsequently passed a breathalyzer is better for "the rest of society" is absurd. Consumption of an unspecified alcohol prior to driving should not deprive people of their basic right to the presumption of innocence that has existed since the 6th Century and is one of the founding principles of this county. If you want to pass judgment and get out your pitchfork, please feel free to do so. I'd rather wait until all of the facts are revealed before passing judgment.
You can not make a U-turn near the top of a hill, a curve or another place where other drivers can not see your vehicle from 500 feet (150 m) away in either direction.
If the pick up driver is doing 55 mph (290,400 feet per hour) it translates into him moving at 4,480' per minute or 80.66' per SECOND. If the limo driver made the turn at 500' distance from the pick up, the pick up driver would have a total of 5.77 SECONDS to decelerate from 55 to a complete stop.
Granted, the pick up driver had alcohol in his system. He's being made out to be a heinous villain, while the limo driver is not. I won't speculate who has greater culpability in this accident, I will only state that there are at least two parties to blame but only one is being demonized because he consumed beer. Meanwhile, the limo driver could very well have been distracted, texting, talking on a cell phone, trying to beat out oncoming traffic...
Why have we still not seen the alcohol level of the limo driver? What made him turn directly in front of a red truck in broad daylight?
He came up clean.
Here's a question for the 'Pro-Drunk Driving' people in this thread: What if the Limo driver's blood test showed .066 BAC 1.5 hours after the crash? ...you will realize the illogical stupidity of your argument.
"I mean, he's just a little drunk so there's no way to know if it was a factor in the crash."
Teplimey, everything you're saying has already been addressed in this thread. Read back if you want.
He came up clean. Here's a question for the 'Pro-Drunk Driving' people in this thread: What if the Limo driver's blood test showed .066 BAC 1.5 hours after the crash?
Teplimey, everything you're saying has already been addressed in this thread. Read back if you want.
Your credibility, if not lost already based on your narrow focus, is completely gone now that you've called people with logical thoughts and arguments "Pro-Drunk Driving".
Nice job.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
