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IMO, the best situational use for a shotgun for home defense is sitting in the closet with shotty trained at the door, not for moving around corners and such but then again, its better than nothing, also they wont be having to spend $400 on licensing/printing.
I don't want to go through any licensing/paperwork/backround check required for a handgun. I read the pistol license for nassau, and you even need 2 references... seems like a PITA.
I rather just get a shotgun. My neighborhood is actually extremely safe (East Hills) and has private security patrol, I live 1/2 mile from the police station. However, you never know what may happen. My backyard is Glen Cove road and you never know if some terrorists fleeing a mass shooting may run through my backyard.
I won't comment on your choices for home defense reasons. Other more informed people have been addressing that. On the license issue however...
Yes, it is a bit of a PITA. That's the point - to discourage good people from applying. The more people who exercise their rights, the better for everyone.
It really isn't that big a deal. If you have a clean record and are literate (can fill out the form with truthful accurate information) you can get a license.
With a license, you can use a pistol, shotgun, baseball bat or cell phone to dial 911. You have the choice. Without a license, you limit your choices.
Exercise your rights. Don't let the county's manufacturers roadblocks deter you.
On LI, frankly I prefer a legal shotgun to an illegal handgun only because some ambulance chaser will likely give the crook your house and life savings if you shoot him with an illegal handgun and he lives.
Legal is always better than illegal. However, my belief is that no matter what you shoot someone with you will be spending a lot of time talking to cops and will most likely face arrest. LI is a very anti-gun area. Use of deadly force is allowed under the law (in certain circumstance) but I have the feeling the DA would rather arrest and prosecute with a local, liberal jury.
And then there is the civil liability. No matter what, if you are part of the privileged, greedy class who can afford a legal gun, then you apparently deserve to lose everything you had for shooting the poor, under-priledged, straight-A student who volunteers at the local charity and was forced to smoke crack, break into your house and try to kill your family. How DARE you try to cut short his life then drive your expensive car to your cushy job where you steal money from the masses?
I'll take my chances with bare-hands self-defense. I'm not going to jail and losing everything I have over some worthless punk. But then, we all do what we have to and none of us really know what we are capable of until the SHTF.
Agree with most of what mathjak says. The only point I didn't see is while the shotgun isn't ideal in close quarters, racking it is the universal sound for "get the F out!" It will likely send an unarmed intruder packing and is still 2nd best vs an armed invader. On LI, frankly I prefer a legal shotgun to an illegal handgun only because some ambulance chaser will likely give the crook your house and life savings if you shoot him with an illegal handgun and he lives.
i addressed the racking sound above .
i wrote:
Yes, every American who has ever watched an action movie knows the sound of a shotgun slide being racked. but are you going to bet your life the drug addict who has come into your home with a pistol who is planning on doing you , your wife or kids harm is going to hear the scary sound while high and pay attention ? they don't even realize they have been shot most of the time . so what chance does a noise have .
The other problem is you have to be close enough to your threat for them to hear you.
You are basically walking into a danger zone with an unloaded weapon. The usual response to this is, “I’m real quick with racking the slide. It won’t matter'
this is more mental masturbation because they lack realistic training.
In all honesty, you will not rack the slide quick enough. You will only rise to the level of training you have mastered.
I have never seen any training methods where you practice sneaking up on a criminal with an unloaded gun.
or the person says they will have the shotgun loaded, but will rack it again when they get close.
I can’t even begin to know why any person in their right mind would take a live shell out of the chamber of a weapon, giving them one fewer round to protect his or her life in order to make a scary noise.
Scary noises are not a good tactic for saving your life, just like a rape whistle will never replace a gun. Arrive to the fight ready to fight, not with a scary noise making device.
Legal is always better than illegal. However, my belief is that no matter what you shoot someone with you will be spending a lot of time talking to cops and will most likely face arrest. LI is a very anti-gun area. Use of deadly force is allowed under the law (in certain circumstance) but I have the feeling the DA would rather arrest and prosecute with a local, liberal jury.
And then there is the civil liability. No matter what, if you are part of the privileged, greedy class who can afford a legal gun, then you apparently deserve to lose everything you had for shooting the poor, under-priledged, straight-A student who volunteers at the local charity and was forced to smoke crack, break into your house and try to kill your family. How DARE you try to cut short his life then drive your expensive car to your cushy job where you steal money from the masses?
I'll take my chances with bare-hands self-defense. I'm not going to jail and losing everything I have over some worthless punk. But then, we all do what we have to and none of us really know what we are capable of until the SHTF.
This is my exact sentiment. That's why when I designed my home I made sure I had a staircase straight up to the attic. Cell phones , some bats and a plan is all my family needs. I like my chances much better than encountering a criminal with a gun and hoping my shots land and he doesn't fire back and kill my kid by chance.
Yes, every American who has ever watched an action movie knows the sound of a shotgun slide being racked. but are you going to bet your life the drug addict who has come into your home with a pistol who is planning on doing you , your wife or kids harm is going to hear the scary sound while high and pay attention ? they don't even realize they have been shot most of the time . so what chance does a noise have .
LOL!! Exactly what I've been telling you this whole thread about shotgun stopping power. And you still think a shotgun is useless. You hit someone with a slug or 00buck and the only way they won't know wtf happened is if it's a head shot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107
The other problem is you have to be close enough to your threat for them to hear you.
You are basically walking into a danger zone with an unloaded weapon. The usual response to this is, “I’m real quick with racking the slide. It won’t matter'
this is more mental masturbation because they lack realistic training.
In all honesty, you will not rack the slide quick enough. You will only rise to the level of training you have mastered.
I have never seen any training methods where you practice sneaking up on a criminal with an unloaded gun.
or the person says they will have the shotgun loaded, but will rack it again when they get close.
I can’t even begin to know why any person in their right mind would take a live shell out of the chamber of a weapon, giving them one fewer round to protect his or her life in order to make a scary noise.
Scary noises are not a good tactic for saving your life, just like a rape whistle will never replace a gun. Arrive to the fight ready to fight, not with a scary noise making device.
Anyone with even a little experience with shotguns should know to always keep the action open that way you port load and it's really only half a rack and you're in business. I think an AR-15 is louder chambering the first round.
it is near useless in a typical home situation because of size, leverage , not easy to deploy quickly if the bad guys are close and two hands needed , not because of fire power!
fire power is great with 00 buck . but it is the other quality's that it lacks that make it not the best choice .
you can aqrgue you all you want but all the top accredited traineras i know or read are not lovers of long arms at all for a citizen to use for home defense .
the acknowledged master of fire arms by both military and law enforcement is expert massad ayoob .
lethal force institute is his and it is the premier training facility in the country .
here is what he had to say about using a shotgun in an interview .
Rem870.com: What do you think about use of a shotgun for home defense?
Massad Ayoob: Excellent in the role of “artillery” once family has been gathered in one spot. If user has to move to gather up children, go to the front door, etc., I recommend handgun instead of shotgun.
Rem870.com: When to use?
Massad Ayoob: As noted above, the shotgun comes into its own in an ensconced home defense situation. When one hand has to be operating lights, coordinating a telephone, etc., I would recommend the handgun instead.
Massad Ayoob :
My own view is that if I can only have one firearm for home defense, I want it to be a handgun for reasons of versatility, but if possible I’d rather have one handgun and one long gun readily available to each person in the household who’s likely to be using deadly force to protect self and family.
I teach the handgun as “infantry,” the long gun as “artillery.” If I have to go mobile, I want a hand free to work communications, illumination, doorknobs, etc. If I have to scoop a little kid and carry same to a safer position, a handgun will be more workable. Same if I have to answer an insistent pounding at the door…which might just be a cop, who won’t take it well if I open the door holding a 12-gauge or a .223 rifle. But if the whole family is barricaded in the safe room and criminals are kicking down the door, it’s probably shooting time, and a .223 class autoloading rifle or a fast-firing shotgun gives way more power and hit potential on multiple targets in unforgiving circumstances.
For a very long time, the shotgun has been the traditional choice of long gun for defense inside the house. In recent years, though, .223 rifles such as the AR15 have become hugely popular for this function. In this week’s class, two thirds of the students are using shotguns, and one third, autoloading rifles. .
The shotguns and rifles should go along with handguns and not used as either or .
Last edited by mathjak107; 12-04-2015 at 05:47 PM..
Not mathjak, but I have a feeling I have more experience with shotguns than him. (keep in mind he thinks his wife will be able to snatch a shotgun from someone probably twice the size of her , and that shotguns are "useless" lol).
Any 12 gauge or 20 gauge Mossberg or Remington pump shotgun with 18.5" barrel (18" is minimum size for NY legal) and you are in good hands. Semi-auto and sawed off shotguns are not SAFE act compliant. If you get comfortable with it, you can even try it out with just a pistol grip, no stock. It becomes much more compact and easy to maneuver with. Just as deadly of course.
a persons size means nothing when you learn how to use leverage . while getting a long arm out of someones hands is the easiest with just a little practice even handguns may not be that secure .
here is an example of the maneuvers ayood teaches in his classes and strength plays no part .
This is why as president I will push for educational gun reform.
Gun safety and training will begin at the elementary level and will continue as required course study through high school level.
You can ban guns completely, outlaw them.
People will still get their hands on them and use them.
Education is the best defense. Automobiles kill far more at the hands of people than guns and yet, ah whatever. Whole argument is a lost cause. Screw it.
If you want guns buy them now while you still can.
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, and that shotguns are "useless" lol). 
