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Busy working couples who are out all day and having their kids raised by strangers/institutions are going to create a different society than one in which life is anchored around the home with only one parent working, and home by 4 or 5:00 O'clock, and everyone ate a cooked-from-scratch meal together at the dinner table, and kids played in the yard or on the block, instead of being chauffeured to constant organized activities. Where people lived in their home for 30 or 40 years (as opposed to 5-7) and so did friends and relatives within walking distance.
That's where you lose me. Where do you get this information? The two-income households I know are that way by choice - because the wife wants a career. There may be some that _need_ the job, but those are in the minority. Usually, if they need it is because they want more (for themselves, their family or both). I have lived on LI for a long time. The "kid raised by someone else" (NOT by choice) is mostly BS. The people doing it today are the same ones who did it in the 70s. I had friends in the 70s who never saw their parents... all summer at sleep away camp, coming over to my house every night because their parent never cooked). Those who want to be with their families find a way to do it.
I also spend time in "the sticks" and know people who live there full time. Many of them, living in these frozen-in-time, idyllic communities have to work multiple jobs to make ends meet. It's no better there.
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Crime was a rarity in many places on LI in the 70's (as it still is here where I live today). Today, on LI, pretty much everyone must be assumed to be a suspect. Would you let your 10 year-old kid play for hours unsupervised in the woods today? (assuming there were any woods left), or ride their bike downtown at night? (Even if you could, today you'd be arrested for doing so!).
I don't know where you get your information. LI is just as safe as it ever was.
I grew up in Elmont/Valley Stream in the 60s-70s. If you took your eyes off your bike for 10 seconds it disappeared. You never got too close to Elmont Road alone because other kids would tackle you off your bicycle and steal it in broad daylight. You though twice about heading into Valley Stream State Park (the woods - and they are still there) without several friends. We had cars stolen from our driveway. We have had cars shot with a gun in the night. There were stabbings and armed robberies. I wasn't allowed to go into Manhattan alone... if the train ride or subway didn't get you killed, you weren't going to survive Times Square.
Plenty of woods still here. I see kids playing there (unsupervised) all the time. I let my 16 year old go to concerts in the city. Times Square is Disneyland by comparison to the 70s.
In the 70s, you didn't go to Roosevelt, certain parts of Freeport and Hempstead or Straight Path in Wyndanch.
Today... pretty much the same. The good area are as good as they ever were and the same for the "bad" areas.
In the 70s, a kid could ride a bicycle on Sunrise Highway from the city line to the Suffolk line without incident (I used to do it). Same today (accepting the fact that kids no longer have the road skills to do so and that the roads are more congested).
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Life is good for me again. I've just enjoyed 14 of the best years of my life. Times which have surpassed even the fond memories of a bygone LI- but that would not have been possible if i were still on LI. On LI, in the time between the fond memories of childhood and the time i moved away, things were just getting worse and worse, and I assumed that I'd likely never experience again what I had experienced in the past.....but I'm happy to report that a change of locale to a snaer place, with saner economics and more traditional people, has returned the joy to life.
Things are different, I'll agree there. They aren't necessarily worse. You make wild assumptions that simply are not true. You simply have memories that have sweetened with time and a highly inaccurate impression of what it is like to live on Long Island today.
I am delighted that you are happy where you are. That's the beauty of the U.S. There is a tremendous diversity of places to live and we are free to choose what works best for us. Using inaccurate stereotypes, you want to promote that idea that your choice is somehow better than someone else's. While I am sure you would wholeheartedly disagree, it stills comes across as questioning your own choices and an envy of the life you "might have had" if you had stayed.
If I recall, you stated in an earlier post something about having a high IQ, but deciding to drop out of High School. This is your choice to make. You feel it was the right thing for you and made for a happier life.
If you do/did possess that high IQ, you must understand how others don't see it that way. Typically, smarter people are more driven to DO something with their life. If everyone took your path, we would have a country of slackers. "With great power comes great responsibility."
Do you know where that pic was taken? (I want to say the Republic or Bethpage Grumman area....but that doesn't seem quite right...)
That is not my father's car, just the same year and color. Sorry I did not make that clear. Funny though my parents' home was near Republic/Fairchlid LOL.
Wall St. worker? LI commuter? Executive? Farmer? It really doesn't matter... Everyone's chasing the bronze ring; the toys; the balance sheet....few are reaping a good life from their endeavors. They're all chasing after the wind.
Everyone likes to focus on the "evil Wall St" person.
What about the pediatric neurosurgeon that saved several children's lives this month?
What about the researcher who found a cure for that fatal disease?
What about the top doctors that have sewn me up on more that one occasion, but were good enough to let me keep body parts (and the use of them) when the odds said I wasn't supposed to?
What about that person who became financially independent enough that they can spend time in charitable organizations fighting to improve the quality of others?
Are their lives not "good?"
Are they chasing the wind?
Are their "credentials (which they falsely call 'education')" a waste?
How many people would have been worse off if these people simply dropped out of high school and decided to live the "easy" life?
Why do we put any stock in what Mumbly says when he himself says he doesn't even like kids - the main reason people work to be here on LI (even those who work 2 jobs)? I have no idea what his purpose being here is really. It's not like he has opened our eyes in any way through any of his "deep thinking". Frankly, I'm shocked he even gets internet or opts for it in the first place. Read the responses - we may as well be talking to a wall. Is that what you do when you're not here Mumbly?
Everyone likes to focus on the "evil Wall St" person.
What about the pediatric neurosurgeon that saved several children's lives this month?
What about the researcher who found a cure for that fatal disease?
What about the top doctors that have sewn me up on more that one occasion, but were good enough to let me keep body parts (and the use of them) when the odds said I wasn't supposed to?
What about that person who became financially independent enough that they can spend time in charitable organizations fighting to improve the quality of others?
Are their lives not "good?"
Are they chasing the wind?
Are their "credentials (which they falsely call 'education')" a waste?
How many people would have been worse off if these people simply dropped out of high school and decided to live the "easy" life?
Whoa, whoa whoa! Where did i say anything about Wall St. workers being "evil"? In context, my comments listing a few different occupations/lifestyles, was to merely show that regardless of the individual path chosen [Do you think that I think that farmers are evil too?], that the basic philosophy which we've been led to believe is the only modus operandi, is pretty much all the same: Debt; consumerism; "earn more to live better".
Ironic that you chose to cite doctors as an a counter-example. They typically die quite young. Do some of them do good and make a difference? Probably. But overall, more people would be better off if people lived healthful sane lives which would eliminate a lot of the problems which doctors treat. Cause and effect.
And re: your previous post: Yes, Elmont and Roosevelt were decidedly different than Ronkonkoma and Centereach and Holbrook in the 70's- just as Brooklyn and Queens were worse than Elmont. But comparing the crime in any given place today vs. the crime in that same place in the 70's tells the story- Just as Elmont is MUCH worse today than it was in the 70's...and so is Ronkonkoma...but it's still not as bad as Elmont. Pretty much [there] the further west you go, the worse it gets.
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Originally Posted by ovi8
Why do we put any stock in what Mumbly says when he himself says he doesn't even like kids - the main reason people work to be here on LI (even those who work 2 jobs)? I have no idea what his purpose being here is really. It's not like he has opened our eyes in any way through any of his "deep thinking". Frankly, I'm shocked he even gets internet or opts for it in the first place. Read the responses - we may as well be talking to a wall. Is that what you do when you're not here Mumbly?
Yes, I don't even like kids, but if had any, I'd consider it a crime to let them be raised by strangers outside of the home, while failing to provide a good environment for them because I chose to live in a place which required being out of the home for long hours just to make enough to support them and pay the bills, while making them live in places where they do not even have the opportunity to play freely outdoors. I wouldn't treat my dogs like that. It amazes me that people who claim to like kids and who indeed have kids, would treat their kids like that. Giving them "things" does not make one a good parent. Being there to provide security and guidance, does.
Whoa, whoa whoa! Where did i say anything about Wall St. workers being "evil"? In context, my comments listing a few different occupations/lifestyles, was to merely show that regardless of the individual path chosen [Do you think that I think that farmers are evil too?], that the basic philosophy which we've been led to believe is the only modus operandi, is pretty much all the same: Debt; consumerism; "earn more to live better".
Ironic that you chose to cite doctors as an a counter-example. They typically die quite young. Do some of them do good and make a difference? Probably. But overall, more people would be better off if people lived healthful sane lives which would eliminate a lot of the problems which doctors treat. Cause and effect.
And re: your previous post: Yes, Elmont and Roosevelt were decidedly different than Ronkonkoma and Centereach and Holbrook in the 70's- just as Brooklyn and Queens were worse than Elmont. But comparing the crime in any given place today vs. the crime in that same place in the 70's tells the story- Just as Elmont is MUCH worse today than it was in the 70's...and so is Ronkonkoma...but it's still not as bad as Elmont. Pretty much [there] the further west you go, the worse it gets.
Yes, I don't even like kids, but if had any, I'd consider it a crime to let them be raised by strangers outside of the home, while failing to provide a good environment for them because I chose to live in a place which required being out of the home for long hours just to make enough to support them and pay the bills, while making them live in places where they do not even have the opportunity to play freely outdoors. I wouldn't treat my dogs like that. It amazes me that people who claim to like kids and who indeed have kids, would treat their kids like that. Giving them "things" does not make one a good parent. Being there to provide security and guidance, does.
Joe - I do believe Nassau has a somewhat lower crime rate than Suffolk. In any event, both counties have extremely low crime rates. New York City's crime rate is lower than it was in the "glory days", and is one of the safest cities in the US. Your comment about the further west you go is preposterous, and house prices reflect that. Huntington Station, Wyandanch, Brentwood, Shirley-Mastic, North Amityville, North Bellport, Central Islip and Riverhead are all in Suffolk last time I checked. I'm sure I missed a few, too. Don't get me wrong, I love Suffolk, but let's not kid ourselves.
Elmont does not have particularly high crime. It's not a white neighborhood any more (though there is a sizable white population, still) but it is not dangerous. I drove through it last week as a a matter of fact, and the homes were neatly kept and the streets were clean. It certainly has a blue collar vibe, but it was hardly Muttontown even in the "glory days". I would wager that, socio-economically, Elmont is exactly the same now as it always was. Its schools actually perform pretty well, and on par with "whiter" districts in blue-collar, majority white Suffolk towns.
Bad example. I would think that someone in that profession could at least afford to live wherever they want to AND have a stay-at-home wife. That's quite different than the couple both working and struggling to make a hundred grand or two, just for your basic middle-class lifestyle on LI.
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Originally Posted by Joe461
The two-income households I know are that way by choice - because the wife wants a career.
You're not paying attention. I made the point that people are conditioned from childhood to desire, or at least accept these things as the status quo. I doubt that very many 13 year-olds say "When I'm an adult I hope to be spending 5 hours a day commuting and 8-10 hours working, and pay $15K a year in property taxes just so my kids can escape the crime of Brooklyn, and let my kids spend all day in the company of strangers and see them for a few hours in the evenings as i serve them a warmed-up microwave dinner!"
They are shown a carrot on a stick- "Oooo! You can be a professional and have a fulfilling life and make a lot of money"- and not knowing any better, they spend years chasing that carrot, and going into debt for it- and it's not until they've past the point of no return with a wife and kids and debt and all the other minutia, that they may start to question the validity of it all, and wonder if they've made the best use of their time, and whether they've truly done the best thing for their family.
Most people just get swept along with the flow. I was one of the lucky ones; I saw through it at a very young age, and was able to avoid falling into that trap.
Yes, I don't even like kids, but if had any, I'd consider it a crime to let them be raised by strangers outside of the home, while failing to provide a good environment for them because I chose to live in a place which required being out of the home for long hours just to make enough to support them and pay the bills, while making them live in places where they do not even have the opportunity to play freely outdoors. I wouldn't treat my dogs like that. It amazes me that people who claim to like kids and who indeed have kids, would treat their kids like that. Giving them "things" does not make one a good parent. Being there to provide security and guidance, does.
You're beyond help if you think everyone here is like that. That's all there is to it. Some deep thinker you are...
You're beyond help if you think everyone here is like that. That's all there is to it. Some deep thinker you are...
I also think it's hilarious that a guy who lives in a trailer with no kids on planet Mars, is lecturing others on how to be a good parent.
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