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The only way contractors can make money charging 10-12k for a bathroom is by cutting corners, doing low quality work, work that is superficial, using the cheapest garbage components, charging cash, and/or a combination of them all.
Seriously? Are you just looking to argue online? Did you read anything besides the last paragraph?
A 5x8 bathroom is NOT getting a full gut remodel by a single person in a single week... Your $600K figure is just nonsense. Read the thread again, and try to understand the numbers.
All you're doing is complaining about the same threads but on the other side.
The 600K its just putting numbers into your statement. Not mine. You said a guy who does bathrooms, and just bathrooms will profit 100K at the end of the year. 12K for 5 days work is 1 work week. 2 weeks vacation, that's 600K in income.
Staff salary is considered part of that 500K overhead. Still don't believe the GC/owner will only make 100K. Contractors make a good living. Someone who does good work deserves such a lifestyle. It's a skilled trade and hard work.
All you're doing is complaining about the same threads but on the other side.
The 600K its just putting numbers into your statement. Not mine. You said a guy who does bathrooms, and just bathrooms will profit 100K at the end of the year. 12K for 5 days work is 1 work week. 2 weeks vacation, that's 600K in income.
Yeah, the wrong numbers. I've said repeatedly that no one man is going to gut and rebuild a 5x8 bathroom in 5 days. Double it. That alone will cut your $600K figure in half. So $300K gross income which includes all the building materials, homeowners choices of fixtures, subcontractors, and contractors operating overhead... And of course having 25 bathrooms to do one right after the other all year long every year is just not a likely situation.
Staff salary is considered part of that 500K overhead. Still don't believe the GC/owner will only make 100K. Contractors make a good living. Someone who does good work deserves such a lifestyle. It's a skilled trade and hard work.Yep. Thanks for that.
If a contractor brings in revenue of 600,000 and profits only 100,000. That means there's 500,000 in overhead?
The standard prices in LI is what it is. Whether or not it is worth it depends on the guys spending the money. But when I hear someone only makes 2K on a 12K remodel, I just don't believe it.
There's nothing wrong with making money. I charge $125-175/hr to fix computers for companies. And I keep a huge percentage of it. That's why people at home rather call their nephews to clean their virus.
Idk why I would have any reason to lie on an anonymous forum.. Seriously man, take a minute and really digest the truthful information I am trying to tell you.
^ that's what the quotes mostly are for... "labor only". Demo will save you a few hundred to $1k at most. Call a handyman and you can get a 7x5 bath done for ~$5k, labor.
This kind of response is a lot better than the kinds that were being thrown out by contractors in the other thread. At least there's a lot of detail and truth this time.
In short, your pocket will take a beating if you call big companies for a small job. Smaller guys will have less to overcharge for. I called Alure too for the small job - they had a dedicated sales team making appointments and someone else was going to get back to me about general questions. That was the first sign of things to come.
The more people understand about how it works, the less of people's time will be wasted, contractors included.
I appreciate you ovi8. Although we aren't always on the same side you seem to at least be able to understand and comprehend the information at hand. I really do just speak the truth, I understnad your point of view and I hope you understand ours.
Can I just ask how much I can save by doing the demolition myself, and buying all the fixtures and having them delivered?
I would need someone to install the drywall, fixtures, tiling, plumbing and electric.
Thx
That all depends on who you hire. A homeowner supplying materials will not save much (if any) if they hired me. Reason being I'm handling the materials and that makes me liable if I damage them. I spend time going over the specifications to ensure everything comes together well, ensuring they order the proper amount, size, styles, etc. I'm a legitimate company that needs to stay in business and Net Profit is what keeps me financially healthy to continue providing my clients with the level of service and quality I provide. Net Profit is not greed, not profit is just business. Don’t think for a second when you purchase a dozen eggs, a loaf of bread, or a gallon of milk you’re not paying a percent of that purchase towards the company’s Net Profit. Look at it this way. If I'm working a three month project and owner supplies all materials on that project and cuts me out of my profit for those materials how do I make up that profit? Without me making profit on those materials I just lost a quarter of one year of material profit. So what do I do? I give the owner a labor rate with more profit built into that rate. Again it becomes a shell game. I'm not in business to save owners money and for me to lose money.
I can also add customer supplied material profit to the lump sum price for the entire proejct. I have line items for "owner supplied materials" and it adds profit on those items to my total price. How do I know what you're going to spend? Simple, after the first meeting/conversation with owner(s) I know. If people want to believe they are saving money by supplying materials that's fine with me. People believe all day long they are getting something for free without paying for it. Buy one at full price and the second at half price. They just got their Net Profit and you didn't even blink.
Owner supplied material consumes my time. I never allow an owner to supply material without me discussing the details of those materials. That's a disaster waiting to happen not to mention having very frustrated and dissatisfied customers. It's not fair to them or to me. Unfortunately there’s plenty of contractors out there who will say when something goes wrong “that’s what you ordered it's not on me" and under their breath say “*********” you wanted to save money well what do you think about those savings now.
Not everybody gets it or wants to get it. Many people actually believe they get value for their money when in reality they didn't. It's human nature to want quality and pay little for it and now with a flood of low quality products being massed produced that actually look good (but in reality poor quality with short service life) has us all brainwashed believing we’re getting quality at a cheap price.
The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot. It cannot be done
^ what about allowances on owner-supplied materials? How does your profit play into that? Obviously you're giving money back from the quoted price, but is that a small %? I'm guessing it has to be. Are there contractors who don't give allowances even with owner-materials?
Obviously if you're doing a bathroom, you'd want your own taste. Maybe you're not talking about tile, fixtures, or furniture?
^ what about allowances on owner-supplied materials? How does your profit play into that? Obviously you're giving money back from the quoted price, but is that a small %? I'm guessing it has to be. Are there contractors who don't give allowances even with owner-materials?
Obviously if you're doing a bathroom, you'd want your own taste. Maybe you're not talking about tile, fixtures, or furniture?
Most of the guys I do business with will give a bathroom price ranging from $11k-13k and that includes the demolition, electric, plumbing, construction material, labor and project coordination of the owner supplied items.
Owner supply their own toilet, sink, faucet, shower/tub, roughs/trims, vanity, medicine cabinet, towel bar, toilet paper holder and vanity light. The contractors or I guess their plumbers help with selecting but the owners pay the vendors directly. This could cost 2k - 6k.
The homeowner then goes to several showrooms and selects out tile. Tile could cost 1.5k - 4k. Again, the customer pay the tile store directly. (Sometimes the owner also has to go to a granite shop to get a vanity top if it was not included in their vanity)
Anyways, I'm sure the contractor get a kick back from their vendor but they don't make any direct money from the homeowner off the owner supplied stuff.
As I mentioned in past, I've collaborated with several contractors on design-build projects, hence the username. This is the experience I have gathered from several different companies. I have also had some of my architecture plans built by some bigger contractors who are larger outfits and more commercialized. Those contractors include all of the owner supplied stuff in the form of an allowance and mark up the products a bit for handling and overhead.
Last edited by DesignBuild516; 02-01-2016 at 06:48 PM..
Most every project has allowances, especially bathrooms and kitchens. Allowances can get a job going without waiting for every item to be selected. Owner supplied materials are not allowances, they are just owner supplied. Allowances are part of the contract price and those allowance items are paid for by the contractor. If the owner spends more than the allotted allowance the owner pays the difference, if under the allotted allowance the owner receives a credit. That credit is usually deducted from the final payment.
Keep in mind I markup the entire job which also includes owner supplied materials but I will not double dip. I'm not greedy, I just need to make my number. For example: I'll provide an allowance of $2,500 for tile at my suppliers showroom and I'll extend my discount to my customer. They can select tile with a cost up to $2,500 at my discounted price. I'm not looking to get anything back from my supplier because the customer already accepted my lump sum price which included markup for the entire project including all materials. It's a win win, customer gets discount, I'm the hero for extending my discount and I get my markup. Again it's a shell game and don't ever think it's not with any business. Every business makes a Net Profit just like every person needs to breath to live.
Most every project has allowances, especially bathrooms and kitchens. Allowances can get a job going without waiting for every item to be selected. Owner supplied materials are not allowances, they are just owner supplied. Allowances are part of the contract price and those allowance items are paid for by the contractor. If the owner spends more than the allotted allowance the owner pays the difference, if under the allotted allowance the owner receives a credit. That credit is usually deducted from the final payment.
Keep in mind I markup the entire job which also includes owner supplied materials but I will not double dip. I'm not greedy, I just need to make my number. For example: I'll provide an allowance of $2,500 for tile at my suppliers showroom and I'll extend my discount to my customer. They can select tile with a cost up to $2,500 at my discounted price. I'm not looking to get anything back from my supplier because the customer already accepted my lump sum price which included markup for the entire project including all materials. It's a win win, customer gets discount, I'm the hero for extending my discount and I get my markup. Again it's a shell game and don't ever think it's not with any business. Every business makes a Net Profit just like every person needs to breath to live.
I understand the difference between an allowance and an owner supplied item.
I just never liked allowances because some people spend 16k on kitchen cabinets and some pay 25k. I understand that the homeonwer just pays the difference between the allotted and the final price but I always felt owner supplied was just more transparent when comparing bids. Like I've said, I've dealt with owner supplied based contracts and allowance based contracts. Always seemed to me that the client felt more in control when they didn't have to fit into an exact cost bracket. Usual just give recommended price ranges to assit client with the full financial picture but ultimately the client would be in control and pay vendor directly.
Either way, to each is their own. Sounds like you got a good gig going. Glad to hear you are keeping busy. Winter has been pretty pleasant. A lot of my guys have gotten some big jobs in throughout the winter without any weather problems, lets hope February and March are the same.
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