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/\ which is why I originally said successful people gravitate to NYC. To which you replied only 20% of the population. Now that we are back there I'll say yes you are right 20% of the overall population are smart/lucky enough to be working in NYC. Then you have retirees, civil servants, welfare population, old money families that aren't interested in working in NYC for any amount. Lastly can't forget the east enders that can't possibly commute.
-In Nassau County that means the 71.4% of the residents that don't have a job in NYC and are making the county average wage for a job based in Nassau County (~ $50K) are completing for things like housing with someone who commutes to NYC for work making ~ $99k (or ~ $114k for those that commute to Manhattan).
This is why housing on LI is expensive. When the person who commutes to NYC making $99K to $114k wants a house, it is a lot easier for them to pony up an extra $10K (or whatever) to out bid, or drive up the price past the point that the LI job earner making $50K to $60K, can afford, driving up prices overall. Even if the LI based worker comes in with 2 average LI based salaries, they still only equal the salary of the NYC commuters. And who is to say that a commuter does not also have an LI based average salary. Now we are back were we started.
In general you're right, but it can't be understated - 2 LI jobs can make due here. It would likely be over the median of $97k. You work your way up from a starter home and starter job.
And to the naysayers of dual income - so what if the kids are in aftercare for 2 hours a day. You know what my kids do at home for those 2 hours while I'm here? It's nice in theory but nothing I care about (other than homework which they get help with at aftercare too). After that, all I get is aggravated at their not listening to me. And as I've mentioned before, the person who posts most about having fun with their kids on my FB feed is a couple who both commute to NYC and get home after 530pm.
Somewhere the point seems lost that salaries in NYC are just higher and jobs more plentiful. That was ALWAYS the case, even when mfg was booming on LI. It's just much more defined now that LI has had an exodus of white collar jobs replaced by Starbucks and Walgreens. When going to NYC, even after the cost and hassles of commuting, pays $30k more, you do what ya gotta do. The goal/dream for many is to find something on LI, even if it's a cut in pay thinking it will improve QOL. Unfortunately the majority of better paying, high QOL gigs on LI are cop and teacher and those are impossible for a mid-career professional to obtain. So stay in Manhattan with a miserable commute, or work 2 jobs on LI. The lesser of those two evils is purely personal.
Last edited by monstermagnet; 03-04-2016 at 09:58 AM..
/\ which is why I originally said successful people gravitate to NYC. To which you replied only 20% of the population. Now that we are back there I'll say yes you are right 20% of the overall population are smart/lucky enough to be working in NYC. Then you have retirees, civil servants, welfare population, old money families that aren't interested in working in NYC for any amount. Lastly can't forget the east enders that can't possibly commute.
What about those who are smart/lucky enough to work on LI, not have an insufferable commute, and earn a good salary?
Right off the bat, they're saving on their LIRR monthly pass, travel time to and on the LIRR, or vehicular commute time plus tolls/gas/parking.
Somewhere the point seems lost that salaries in NYC are just higher and jobs more plentiful. That was ALWAYS the case, even when mfg was booming on LI. It's just much more defined now that LI has had an exodus of white collar jobs replaced by Starbucks and Walgreens. When going to NYC, even after the cost and hassles of commuting, pays $30k more, you do what ya gotta do. The goal/dream for many is to find something on LI, even if it's a cut in pay thinking it will improve QOL. Unfortunately the majority of better paying, high QOL gigs on LI are cop and teacher and those are impossible for a mid-career professional to obtain. So stay in Manhattan with a miserable commute, or work 2 jobs on LI. The lesser of those two evils is purely personal.
I gotta say, I won't voluntarily give up what I have here for $30k more a year in NYC. $50k+ and we'll talk. That's a lot more scheduling and stress to deal with especially with kids and their activities and your needing to be back in time. Sunday nights I don't even dread having to work the next day like most folks. We've had low morale for quite a while at work (seeing the molerats next to you get shot in the face) but I'm not leaving until they kick me out.
Those numbers are far to liberal. First off 18-22 should not be counted IMO. Also everyone over 62 is actually blocking a job for a young worker. Subtract every minimum wage job too. I'd also subtract every civil service job but, at the very least every teacher and cop. Then tell me what percentage of the work force goes to NYC to earn their money.
You say that everyone over 62 is blocking a job for a young worker. But you have to be 65 to be eligible for Medicare. What do you expect people ages 62-64 use for health insurance, if they (according to you) shouldn't be working, but are not yet eligible for Medicare?
As you can see my math is atrocious. I am not saying there aren't good jobs on LI. That Pdf also said average salary in Manhattan is 118k, NYC 98k and LI 88k. If you live out east you really don't have a choice but to work on LI or else your life would be horrible.
Keep in mind that the Manhattan (and NYC) salaries are inflated by the relatively small number of very high paying Wall Street jobs. People, like myself, in other fields, won't make as much money.
Also, when you subtract the LIRR fare, possibly the subway fare, and the cost of more formal clothing from the Manhattan salaries, 118k isn't going to go so far. And then there is the cost of, due to less free time, needing to pay others to do tasks that you could have done yourself if you worked on LI.
At least for non-Wall Street jobs, I wouldn't be surprised if the real salary on Long Island was actually higher than in Manhattan. And, you can live at least a minimal lifestyle on LI with 88k (not in the "keeping up with the Jonses" neighborhoods), but you cannot live in NYC on 98k or even 118k.
I make more than the LI average salary of 88k, and closer to the NYC average 98k. Nobody in my field at my level, NYC or not, makes 118k.
I do not understand why everybody on this board wants me to work in NYC.
I gotta say, I won't voluntarily give up what I have here for $30k more a year in NYC. $50k+ and we'll talk. That's a lot more scheduling and stress to deal with especially with kids. Sunday nights I don't even dread having to work the next day like most folks.
I totally agree. I took a $15k cut to leave NYC for LI (ultimately a wash since I drove into NYC and gas was $4 buck per gallon) but it took me 3 years to find a job worth it. In that time, the job scene has gotten much worse on LI (and I'm always looking). In fact, having better luck looking in S. Florida for jobs than LI and the wages are comparable. THAT is a bad sign for LI! I also wouldn't go back to NYC for less than $40 or $50k more. Something that would make a real dent in my debt or provide for my future. Like you said, 15+ hrs per week commuting, plus the actual cost of commuting plus the general drudgery makes an increase of less than $30k gross a non-starter in my opinion.
/\ which is why I originally said successful people gravitate to NYC. To which you replied only 20% of the population. Now that we are back there I'll say yes you are right 20% of the overall population are smart/lucky enough to be working in NYC.
I would never consider anybody working in NYC to be lucky.
As for "smart": how do you define "smart"? Are you defining "smart" as "willing to work long hours and endure a ridiculous commute for a low salary and poor benefits"?
Quote:
Then you have retirees, civil servants, welfare population, old money families that aren't interested in working in NYC for any amount. Lastly can't forget the east enders that can't possibly commute.
And then people like myself who wouldn't work in NYC for any amount, unless it was enough to live comfortably in or near the city.
Somewhere the point seems lost that salaries in NYC are just higher and jobs more plentiful. That was ALWAYS the case, even when mfg was booming on LI. It's just much more defined now that LI has had an exodus of white collar jobs replaced by Starbucks and Walgreens. When going to NYC, even after the cost and hassles of commuting, pays $30k more, you do what ya gotta do. The goal/dream for many is to find something on LI, even if it's a cut in pay thinking it will improve QOL. Unfortunately the majority of better paying, high QOL gigs on LI are cop and teacher and those are impossible for a mid-career professional to obtain. So stay in Manhattan with a miserable commute, or work 2 jobs on LI. The lesser of those two evils is purely personal.
The 2 points that people are missing:
1. The average NYC salaries others listed are inflated by the relatively small number of very high paying Wall Street jobs. If, like me, you are not in that field, you will not be making $30k more by working in NYC rather than LI.
2. If you work in NYC, you have to subtract the LIRR fare, possibly the subway fare, and the cost of more formal clothes. Plus, there is the cost of having less free time, and needing to pay others to do tasks that you could have done yourself. And, at least from what I've seen, NYC firms tend to give poorer benefits then LI firms, so that is potentially additional costs, especially for health insurance.
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And as I've mentioned before, the person who posts most about having fun with their kids on my FB feed is a couple who both commute to NYC and get home after 530pm.
