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I must have missed the memo where you became the arbiter of what's "needed" and what isn't. As other posters have pointed out, your arbitrary dislike for $72k in wages is not well founded and the twin bogeymen of guaranteed raises and no accountability exist nowhere but in your head. If these workers can collectively negotiate increased compensation and better work conditions then that necessarily means that the company can afford to pay the workers who make up the meat and potatoes of the company more. They're not taking from the taxpayer, so why do I care if an employer and employee strike a fair balance for their compensation.
I wasn't going to argue about a few bucks a month but if you're a FIOS customer, you are seeing increased fees, and a new FIOS broadcast TV fee as of March. You're right, they're not taking from the taxpayer - guess where it's coming from? Guess where more money will come from?
Accountability - what are we supposed to think when a guy sits in his truck for 30+ minutes after a job is done rather than go to the next one? They're all scheduled with plenty of time in between, conveniently for them. Customers are waiting more than a day as a result. Does that sound like an ideal way to run a business? What kind of incentive/performance measure is there if you believe there is one? We know many other unions without performance measurements - and even some trying to get rid of them because it puts them directly in the spotlight. Can't have that.
You know what kind of degrees get 70k to start? Not many, at all. Tell me that's not relevant too. It doesn't take a special person to see salaries, pensions, and benefits fall into a different category than need. Why is it not greed? "Fair" went by the gravy train decades ago.
I'd like to know what you think about the public sector unions and their CBAs.
I wasn't going to argue about a few bucks a month but if you're a FIOS customer, you are seeing increased fees, and a new FIOS broadcast TV fee as of March. You're right, they're not taking from the taxpayer - guess where it's coming from?
Accountability - what are we supposed to think when a guy sits in his truck for 30+ minutes after a job is done rather than go to the next one? They're all scheduled with plenty of time in between, conveniently for them. What kind of incentive/performance measure is there if you believe there is one?
You know what kind of degrees get 70k to start? Not many, at all. Tell me that's not relevant too.
Your FIOS charges stem from the highest price Verizon thinks they can charge you without driving you to a competitor. Verizon's profit was $4.22 billion last year. Do you think giving 35,000 people a $5,000 raise (which they are not even demanding), which is less than 5% of that profit, is going to cause your FIOS charges to rocket upwards? Jesus, read a book.
Who is this imaginary guy sitting in a fictional truck? Do you have any argument not grounded in fabricated generalizations?
And what's your obsession with $70k? Why are you so worried about what someone else makes? The middle class in this county is getting killed. We should be applauding jobs like these.
^ since I've had FIOS installed twice and once at a relative's house... and since I'm not the only one who's said it in this thread...
^ since this thread is about unions asking for more when they are already well compensated compared to many who work hard and don't even get that much... these people need to get a grip. Be thankful for what you already have instead of running out on the street and stomping your feet because you might get laid off. Welcome to the working world, where nothing is guaranteed.
^ since I've had FIOS installed twice and once at a relative's house... and since I'm not the only one who's said it in this thread...
^ since this thread is about unions asking for more when they are already well compensated compared to many who work hard and don't even get that much... these people need to get a grip. Be thankful for what you already have instead of running out on the street and stomping your feet because you might get laid off. Welcome to the working world, where nothing is guaranteed.
I'm sorry, but I don't see any correlation between what Unions demand and the fact that some workers in other fields are underpaid. Why should the fact that some other guy doesn't make enough money deter another from seeking to improve his lot, particularly when the alternative is to add to the $4.22 billion Verizon already makes annually? And again, the "greedy Union" generalization is about as relevant as the "evil Corporation" one in this discussion, so please stop wasting your breath.
In fact, I would think the opposite of your thought process is true. After all, as workers demand higher wages, demand for lower wage workers would presumably increase, along with an increase in their compensation.
And why should workers settle for being "thankful" that they have a job? Shouldn't each party in a free market economy maximize their bargaining power to strike the best deal with the other side (who is doing the same thing)? Did your civics teacher inexplicably stop teaching about US history and economic thought before reaching the end of the Gilded Age?
Your FIOS charges stem from the highest price Verizon thinks they can charge you without driving you to a competitor. Verizon's profit was $4.22 billion last year. Do you think giving 35,000 people a $5,000 raise (which they are not even demanding), which is less than 5% of that profit, is going to cause your FIOS charges to rocket upwards? Jesus, read a book.
Oh, almost forgot, you're an economist too.
Why don't you share with us the following: What percentage of the $59.4 Billion in Cost of Services and SG&A do the 177,700 Verizon employees constitute? FYI, both those line items account for over 60% of their Total Operating Expenses and 45% of Revenues.
Tell us again how those salaries have little impact on what customers ultimately pay (without using the word 'nuance' )?
Quote:
Who is this imaginary guy sitting in a fictional truck? Do you have any argument not grounded in fabricated generalizations?
Actually, the guy sitting in the truck for 30 minutes or more after he's done is accurate. That partly explains why you have to wait up to 4 days to get them to come out if you have a problem. Have you ever had Fios?
Why don't you share with us the following: What percentage of the $59.4 Billion in Cost of Services and SG&A do the 177,700 Verizon employees constitute? FYI, both those line items account for over 60% of their Total Operating Expenses and 45% of Revenues.
Ok, what's your point? That a company involved in the service industry has high operating costs in the form of salary to its employees? You've nailed obvious and totally irrelevant to the discussion at hand in a single shot. Good one.
What's the basis of comparison to other similar service providers? Are you claiming its disproportionate in comparison? If not, then the 45% of revenues figure is meaningless. And what does this have to do with Unions demanding that workers not be required to travel hundreds of miles to job sites? And what relationship does it have to the question of whether ovi8 has been entrusted by the Lord Almighty to be the ultimate decider of what's "fair" compensation for any given subset of workers? Does the fact that employee compensation makes up a good chunk of Verizon's operating expenses mean that Unions, in general, no longer have any purpose in our society as posited by ovi8 on this thread? If 45% is too high, as you seem to suggest, please share with us the "right" number so that we can mull it over.
^ this discussion is about what we feel is already fair. Where does it stop in your mind if parties are "maximizing their bargaining power"? You don't have to look far for CBA failures... look at your taxes. Not only do people suffer, local businesses who are taxed and get fewer customers do too.
So just because this is a private sector company (but public in that they answer to shareholders and must worry about profits IMPROVING), it's ok that unions keep demanding until their grandkids are guaranteed jobs, you know - since it doesn't come from taxpayers anyway? Maximize baby! Nobody complains of the unfairness & greed that has overtaken some jobs here... nobody at all.
Evil corps vs. greedy unions - again pitting 2 against each other when I'm not even on the company's side either. You're basically saying it's ok to be slimy since the other side is as well (because they make money). You go guys, keep up the image.
I started in September 1996. Hired as a temporary worker when it was still known as NYNEX. I was a splicers helper in Sunset Park, getting paid $221 a week before taxes. Sitting in a wet, rat-filled manhole or being strapped to a strand 45 feet in the air, splicing broken telephone cable. In good weather, rain, downpours, wind, snow, -7 or 107 degrees. No air conditioning in trucks. Worked in all of the New York City’s projects. Places where things were thrown out of windows at us on a weekly basis.
This is the job my dad did. This is what my brothers did. I remember reminding myself, Top pay is in five years, Matt. Just five years. Hang in there.
In 1997, NYNEX became Bell Atlantic and I became a permanent employee. At this point, I had moved on to Installation and Repair. I enjoyed doing this more than the splicing years. I got to see the customers, the elderly who would open their doors crying and hold my hand because their phones weren’t working. They couldn’t call their sons, daughters or doctors. Cell phones were not as popular then as they are today. Especially amongst the elderly.
I never left a customers house until that dial tone came on. Sure, I got yelled at for not having a higher number in productivity sometimes. I didn’t care. I’d run a wire down the block if I needed too. That woman was my mom, my elderly grandmother or my sick aunt. That phone was coming on. End of story. I treated every customer as if I was helping a family member.
Thankfully, this was also a time when acts like these were noticed by great managers — men and women who took the time to read the letters or play the voicemails the customers left about the great job I did.
It’s not always about the money some days.
In 2000, Bell Atlantic became Verizon. One year from top pay. You made it, kid. It’s gonna start paying off.
You understand the job, you learned a trade, there’s no problem you can’t fix.
I felt rewarded. I felt pride.
The change in this company came as soon as the new name appeared on the trucks, buildings and billboards.
I felt the change coming.
Great managers were “RIF’d.” (Reduction in Force.) Fancy word for fired.
Every month brought new and unattainable goals with it. They want us to be perfect. Everyday.
Perfection in itself is imperfection.
New managers all the time.
We were given time quotas. No more than two hours on any job. Five jobs a day. One job would be in one neighborhood, the next in a neighborhood on the other side of Brooklyn. If we didn’t start and end the job within that two-hour window, disciplinary action was taken. Coached, Verbal, Written, Suspension and finally, Termination from Company and Payroll.
The outside plant started to fall apart. Nothing is being fixed. Every pole is a danger nowadays. No more cables replaced. Supplies and tools we needed stopped coming into our garages.
The next step was every truck being fitted with a state-of-the-art GPS tracking system.
At the time, Verizon said it was for fleet control and would not be used for discipline.
That lasted two years.
Suspensions started coming down. Some were deserved, the bad apples, the 80/20 employee ratio. Some definitely abused the job. They needed to go.
Then, slowly but surely, everyone was being watched. We would receive calls from Texas and California wondering why we were where we were. When we answered that we we were at the Central Office to use the bathroom, we were asked if we called our managers. We had to ask to use the bathroom — at 35 or 55 years of age.
The discipline and suspensions started to hit for these “infractions.”
Men and women who never climbed a pole, spliced a cable or saw the inside of a New York City Housing Authority apartment became the ones to handle these.
No cones around truck? Discipline.
No vest? Discipline.
No hardhat? Discipline.
Two hours and one minute over? Discipline.
When FiOS originally arrived, the technicians were sent to training facilities for a month to learn how to install and maintain the new technology. A full 20 days.
A few months ago, when I was finally told I’d be leaving Installation and Repair of phones and the copper plant itself, I understood because it’s the direction the world is going in.
I rode with another technician for three days. Then I was sent out into the FiOS world.
Three days. Down from 20.
I had no idea what I was doing. I had no numbers to call. I was not given the right FiOS tools I needed.
I taught myself slowly. Everyday I was figuring out how to do new things and make progress.
Three weeks later I was on a FiOS installation when my manager came out. This was the first time I saw him out in the field. We never really talked before. I was on 43rd Street in Boro Park. I was soaked, on my third sweatshirt and finishing the job.
Everything was up and running. Customer praised the job I did. (Mind you… in under three hours.)
My manager left the customer and came back over to me. He asked where my “Ladder Mate” was. I had no idea what that was. No one ever used one. Apparently, it’s a strap you connect to the ladder and wrap around the pole. I told him I was never given one, and never taught how to use one.
I was suspended on the soaking street we stood on. Hardhat, foggy and water speckled safety glasses, steel toe boots, safety vest, gloves, electrical ground tester hooked to tool belt.
Suspended for something I was never introduced to or trained for. Not a single mark in the 20+ years of my career.
This was happening everywhere — five days for this, ten for this. A stop at a restaurant or Central Office to use the bathroom was now a 30 day suspension.
Forced assignments every night. Forced Saturdays and forced Sundays. No joking. Ten to 12 hours a day, seven days a week.
Money is not everything. Family and happiness are. They are destroying both of these.
This forced overtime is in its second year.
Now, they want to move us wherever, whenever. Anywhere Verizon operates.
They want all the Call Centers closed. Jobs moved overseas.
This has nothing to do with us making more money.
I enjoyed my job when I started. I am saddened by what this company has become. It’s affecting my emotional and physical health. My life in general.
I want my days to be eight hours of work, eight hours of my time and eight hours of sleep. Plenty of men and women will pick up the overtime and weekends.
Still, they don’t care. Everybody is forced and assigned.
There are no rewards to be had. I have no pride left.
We are on our fifth week of a strike. No medical, health or prescription coverage. No income. No understanding. No major media coverage. No end in sight.
While I was mobile picketing, I came across the manager that suspended me. He was doing a FiOS install. Voice/Phone only.
He stuck his hand out to shake mine, I politely declined.
I asked the customer how the manager was doing with the installation.
“It’s his fourth day here, he doesn’t know what he’s doing, I’m getting annoyed, we need you guys back, man.” I shook his hand and said, sarcastically, “Good luck with this one, this is a manager with a heart of gold…”
Then I walked over to my personal car, pulled something out of the trunk, walked over to the pole with the extension ladder leaning on it, and left a Ladder Mate I’d bought.
Thanks for posting that sojourn. Most people that complain about this strike & call the Verizon striking workers entitled among other things have no idea what they are talking about. Unless they actually work for them & have had to deal with this crap.We know 5 people that work for Verizon. One is a supervisor & has been working 18 hour shifts since the strike started. My friend has only seen her husband a few times since this strike started 5 weeks ago. We have 2 family members & 2 friends that work in training & customer service. They both fear what was said above in soujourn's post. Like so many companies Verizon is trying to move these jobs OVERSEAS. The exact thing the people that complain & say these striking workers are acting like entitled jerks...I bet those same people will not be all too thrilled when they call Verizon or any company & the call is answered by someone with an accent that you can't even understand! Because those jobs will now be outsourced to places like India! Can't have your cake & eat it too. We back these striking workers 200%. Workers that have worked for Verizon for almost 20 years are being screwed by corporate greed. But the same people that wine they are being entitled jerks....are also probably the ones here complaining how everyone is fleeing LI due to High Cost of Living! What so you think will happen if Verizon wins this? Lots of jobs lost. Pay for the workers go way down. Verizon employs quite a large workforce on LI. Think before you speak.
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