Do LI Teachers earn too much? (New York, Albany: private schools, living in, design)
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Originally Posted by ovi8 Let's look at numbers, shall we? With the 600+ teachers in my district (at least 400 make over $100k btw - source), if you take away say $20k from what we have to pay in each salary (or health benefits - see above estimated cost for that), you have $8mil-$12mil in savings. There are 1000 households in my town who contribute to taxes. How can you say $20k per teacher (or its equivalent cost in benefits) is negligible? What am I missing or what are your numbers?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEPLimey
Wait, you have 600+ teachers in your district for 1,000 households? Let's look at the numbers, shall we?
Best exchange of the thread since the OP was caught citing information not in the bookmark he/she posted to open this troll thread.
The undeniable five-year trend on LI budget votes is essentially 100% school district passing at record passing numbers. Efforts to fight this trend and rally 'no' votes seem unavailing - if not backfiring - which must be very very frustrating to some.
Inventing and then citing non-existing information (concerning teacher non-classroom hours in the OP's case , for example) and inventing and then citing wacky facts and figures is not the path to convincing others and overcoming this frustration.
There is no doubt that LI, Westchester and New Jersey have higher property taxes and that a portion of the property taxes in NY and NJ go towards public education. Not every state follows this model.
Last edited by Quick Commenter; 08-18-2016 at 02:23 PM..
A big part of the problem is the 124 school districts across LI, each with its own six-figure superintendent, assistant supers, principal, support staff, yada yada. I get it nobody wants to consolidate, but this heaps more costs onto us.
The new neighbors across the street have two preschoolers and a new baby. Instead of seeing a nice young family, I see $90K plus a year to educate them. $25K - $35K to educate a child is completely unprecedented anywhere in US public schools, but a "normal" reality on LI.
I'm single here and with no kids, sweating blood paying for the schools. I hope when I sell my house a family with six kids moves in and the school district takes a S**t.
I've been saying LI needs to consolidate for years now.
Everything.
One school district, one fire department, one police department (no village stuff), you get the drift.
You see, I really think the term "keeping up with the Joneses" originated on Long Island...people just started moving out here to outdo each other (oh you guys are still back in Brooklyn) and it led to people willing to pay the top dollar for an inferior product just for bragging rights. I'm from Queens and I think 6K is high property tax. What are you paying for??
Hempstead should have been just like White Plains - and I said that one years ago too.
Not for nothing, it's a little scary when this Native NYer is looking at his 401k and wondering if selling the apartment, cashing out, and moving to the South is such a bad idea...
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I've been saying LI needs to consolidate for years now.
Everything.
One school district, one fire department, one police department (no village stuff), you get the drift.
You see, I really think the term "keeping up with the Joneses" originated on Long Island...people just started moving out here to outdo each other (oh you guys are still back in Brooklyn) and it led to people willing to pay the top dollar for an inferior product just for bragging rights. I'm from Queens and I think 6K is high property tax. What are you paying for??
Hempstead should have been just like White Plains - and I said that one years ago too.
Not for nothing, it's a little scary when this Native NYer is looking at his 401k and wondering if selling the apartment, cashing out, and moving to the South is such a bad idea...
My mother was saying this in the 1970s not long after we moved here. She'd go to these local meetings and complain that 4 school districts in one freaking town is insanity.
Yes, yes, they'd nod. She was right of course, but in all these years nothing has changed. Remember that for every consolidation, efficiency and cutback somebody loses an income stream, so there will always be push-back. It could be a connected contractor, an unemployable son in law, etc., etc., and nobody likes facing the axe.
LI government was set up and structured to keep thousands of connected people employed. Town of Hempstead as one example has employed multiple generations of whole families. In this "family business" people are hired based on connections, not abilities. So if you think the towns, counties and schools work for you, guess again. You're here to keep refilling the feeding trough.
I'd cash in the apartment while values are high and take that money and run.
Originally Posted by ovi8 Let's look at numbers, shall we? With the 600+ teachers in my district (at least 400 make over $100k btw - source), if you take away say $20k from what we have to pay in each salary (or health benefits - see above estimated cost for that), you have $8mil-$12mil in savings. There are 1000 households in my town who contribute to taxes. How can you say $20k per teacher (or its equivalent cost in benefits) is negligible? What am I missing or what are your numbers?
Best exchange of the thread since the OP was caught citing information not in the bookmark he/she posted to open this troll thread.
The undeniable five-year trend on LI budget votes is essentially 100% school district passing at record passing numbers. Efforts to fight this trend and rally 'no' votes seem unavailing - if not backfiring - which must be very very frustrating to some.
Inventing and then citing non-existing information (concerning teacher non-classroom hours in the OP's case , for example) and inventing and then citing wacky facts and figures is not the path to convincing others and overcoming this frustration.
There is no doubt that LI, Westchester and New Jersey have higher property taxes and that a portion of the property taxes in NY and NJ go towards public education. Not every state follows this model.
What wacky facts? Read the study. Teacher unions have been lying about how many hours teachers actually spend in the classroom. If they lie about this, what makes you think they aren't lying to you about how much time they spend grading papers and creating lesson plans outside the classroom? Face it: Teaching on LI is a cushy gig. For what essentially is part-time work they recieve gold plated Cadillac health care for life and a fat pension. Do you really think it is fair that some gym teacher kicked around a soccer ball for 20 hours per week with some 5th graders back in the 90's and now is set for life with 80,000 per year on the backs of the taxpayers?
What wacky facts? Read the study. Teacher unions have been lying about how many hours teachers actually spend in the classroom. If they lie about this, what makes you think they aren't lying to you about how much time they spend grading papers and creating lesson plans outside the classroom? Face it: Teaching on LI is a cushy gig. For what essentially is part-time work they recieve gold plated Cadillac health care for life and a fat pension. Do you really think it is fair that some gym teacher kicked around a soccer ball for 20 hours per week with some 5th graders back in the 90's and now is set for life with 80,000 per year on the backs of the taxpayers?
Clearly you've convinced yourself (if nobody else) about your own personal perspectives on teachers, teacher work hours, teachers' unions, teachers' health care, and teachers' pensions.
I can see you are very frustrated that the voting public - as seen in the record recent school district budget passing rates and record school district budget passing margins of Long Island - is completely against you.
Perhaps you can turn this around by posting more fantasy troll threads on citi- data about teachers, teacher work hours, teachers' unions, teachers' health care, teachers' unicorns, and teachers' pensions.
I would trust that a poster who is hanging their hat on their mathematical calculations regarding a huge savings to taxpayers stemming from base salary reductions would have at least checked their numbers before accusing others of failing to provide analysis backed up by hard numbers.
My mother was saying this in the 1970s not long after we moved here. She'd go to these local meetings and complain that 4 school districts in one freaking town is insanity.
Yes, yes, they'd nod. She was right of course, but in all these years nothing has changed. Remember that for every consolidation, efficiency and cutback somebody loses an income stream, so there will always be push-back. It could be a connected contractor, an unemployable son in law, etc., etc., and nobody likes facing the axe.
One idea would be to not lay anybody off, but to not replace somebody in a redundant position when he/she retires. It would take longer to have an effect, but it would avoid anybody losing an income stream.
The undeniable five-year trend on LI budget votes is essentially 100% school district passing at record passing numbers. Efforts to fight this trend and rally 'no' votes seem unavailing - if not backfiring - which must be very very frustrating to some.
Inventing and then citing non-existing information (concerning teacher non-classroom hours in the OP's case , for example) and inventing and then citing wacky facts and figures is not the path to convincing others and overcoming this frustration.
Funny you all skip right over my post with a 1% salary cut and 1% increase in benefit participation. To offset 5 years of 7% raises during the recession while industry deserted the island and 1000's lost high wage jobs or traded them in for lower wage. But the teachers...3.5% step, 3.5% contract raise....every year, year in, year out. THAT is why they can't get new contracts now. Any politician left unindicted from those years will not put their neck in that noose now. No, now it's 2% cap. That's the best we can get. Good or bad, we ALL thank Cuomo for that one!!
Your fantasy of how the overwhelming passing of budgets someone shows "support" by residents is ludicrous and silly. The union and their families create a multiple THOUSANDS vote spot every election. IF the homeowners had the time, understanding and belief it might help, they'd vote no (or at least vote) a lot more. Current numbers are up (as you say "record numbers") because people are feeling relief from Cuomo's cap so they are voting yes a little less begrudgingly. That's called being a GOOD neighbor. In the current system, they are pitted AGAINST their own kids and teachers to prop up a budget that cuts student programs to cover pension obligations and benefits. We vote no, we threaten our own home values, student services and programs, the threat of class sizes exploding, reduced bussing options, cuts in arts, sports, music, AP, Drivers Ed. Of course, give the teachers a 5% raise (instead of 7%) and save the programs...surely you'd think such altruistic professionals keen on the success of their students would relish the chance to get such a win win. And as a "brotherhood of workers" you'd think if 1% could save the jobs of the younger, untenured teachers, that would be a no-brainer as well. Nope. The wheels of the bus go round and round....and the teacher's union gladly throws their friends, kids and neighbors under it.
Last edited by monstermagnet; 08-19-2016 at 11:14 AM..
I've been saying LI needs to consolidate for years now.
Everything. One school district, one fire department, one police department (no village stuff), you get the drift.
You see, I really think the term "keeping up with the Joneses" originated on Long Island...people just started moving out here to outdo each other (oh you guys are still back in Brooklyn) and it led to people willing to pay the top dollar for an inferior product just for bragging rights. I'm from Queens and I think 6K is high property tax. What are you paying for??
Hempstead should have been just like White Plains - and I said that one years ago too.
Not for nothing, it's a little scary when this Native NYer is looking at his 401k and wondering if selling the apartment, cashing out, and moving to the South is such a bad idea...
Yeah, the consolidated school district of New York City has providing thousands of kids a quality education for many years.
Kidding aside, we can see how the consolidation worked out the schools in the Five Boroughs. Not so well, a bet the majority of the people on Long Island (or their parents) moved out to here because of the better schools.
And consolidation of the police forces in Nassau and Suffolk counties has lead to some of the most expensive police forces in the entire country.
The real problem I think is the Pension system. It was not designed for people to live long in retirement. With more people living into their 80s (and sometimes beyond) it is becoming increasingly expensive. For example, a male Suffolk County police officer who retires at age 50 has a life expectancy of 82.2 years old. That is, he can expect to collect a pension for THIRTY TWO YEARS. Maybe even more.
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