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Turns out the American Statistical Association was right and the failed experimental evaluation was wrong. This court case was carried in all the papers throughout the country. Apparently there are many factors beyond a teachers control (IQ, Parents, Student Effort, School Safety, Curriculum, Learning Materials, etc. ) that are far more decisive in student test ratings than a teachers' efforts. The experimental rating system apparently forgot that.
I know this is frustrating for you, if the random caps are any indication.
No, it's cute that you conveniently skip over that the case was about "VAM" value added modeling BIAS which was another attempt to get past the union stronghold and get some type of eval in. Chairman King blew that one big time and the court case closed that chapter. No argument there. The entire system in NY has been adversarial (as I said a bunch of times) so yes, "capricious" and "bias" are the key words that sealed the court decision.
Once again, I showed both sides, the unions and Cuomos. So what about my ONE PERCENT suggestion? Too arbitrary? Too impactful? Too "capricious." So let me ask, why is there "bias" when a Principal who doesn't like you backs an "ineffective" rating but no bias when a Principal who DOES like you bumps your rating despite hit or miss classroom evals and lower student performance? That's ok because no "junk science?!?!"
You can cite ONE legal battle all day, it doesn't discredit a single thing I've said. Thousands of districts use exam evals with no issue.
Won't happen here, though. Union owns the voting blocs and taxpayers too busy and cynical to bother. Read their lips "no evals based on exam scores...EVER" regardless of 'arbitrary, discredited or experimental." Line in the sand, drawn. Let me know when they find one that isn't all of those negatives and more. Let me know when the union embraces one as fair and effective. It will come with a bridge for sale in Brooklyn. Horse dead and fully beaten. Nice debate. I'm out.
These arguments always get spun into a defense of common core when I'm against it. I'm also against the egregious compensation practices on LI. There has to be a balance. Unions don't do balance. Unions are out to win...which means someone has to lose. The losers are the ones paying the freight. That is where we are now and the animosity on both sides. We should be aiming for a win-win, working together towards improvement, acceptable teacher standards and also some relief for the taxpayer. That's what a functional system would try to achieve.
Last edited by monstermagnet; 08-24-2016 at 09:27 AM..
No, it's cute that you conveniently skip over that the case was about "VAM" value added modeling BIAS which was another attempt to get past the union stronghold and get some type of eval in. Chairman King blew that one big time and the court case closed that chapter. No argument there. NYSED spared no expense in fighting the Lederman case and her lawyer was her husband. The entire system in NY has been adversarial (as I said a bunch of times) so yes, "capricious" and "bias" are the key words that sealed the court decision.
Once again, I showed both sides, the unions and Cuomos. So what about my ONE PERCENT suggestion? Too arbitrary? Too impactful? Too "capricious." So let me ask, why is there "bias" when a Principal who doesn't like you backs an "ineffective" rating but no bias when a Principal who DOES like you bumps your rating despite hit or miss classroom evals and lower student performance? That's ok because no "junk science?!?!"
You can cite ONE legal battle all day, it doesn't discredit a single thing I've said. Thousands of districts use exam evals with no issue.
New York Times coverage: "A New York State court on Tuesday threw out a teacher’s evaluation for the 2013-14 school year, based on a controversial state rating system, saying that it had been “arbitrary and capricious.” But the court stopped short of ruling on the evaluation system more broadly because the state has already begun replacing it."
Your attempts to twist a reasonable teacher reaction to junk science evaluations into a rejection of all evaluations have failed.
I provided the link you requested showing the defeat of the arbitrary and experimental teacher evaluations.
As to your complaint that I provided evidence of just one judgment against the junk science evaluation: There has been only one legal battle - if you read the last sentence in the above NYT quote you will see why.
I've done all I can. You can continue to peddle the myth that teachers are against all evaluations.
Last edited by Quick Commenter; 08-24-2016 at 09:22 AM..
New York Times coverage: "A New York State court on Tuesday threw out a teacher’s evaluation for the 2013-14 school year, based on a controversial state rating system, saying that it had been “arbitrary and capricious.” But the court stopped short of ruling on the evaluation system more broadly because the state has already begun replacing it."
Your attempts to twist a reasonable teacher reaction to junk science evaluations into a rejection of all evaluations have failed.
I provided the link you requested showing the defeat of the arbitrary and experimental teacher evaluations.
As to your complaint that I provided evidence of just one judgment against the junk science evaluation: There has been only one legal battle - if you read the last sentence in the above NYT quote you will see why.
I've done all I can. You can continue to peddle the myth that teachers are against all evaluations.
No, NEW YORK teachers are against all evals. NYSUT actions speak louder than your words.
Silly man. Spend a few minutes reading these inane posts and find one teacher who is complaining.
I never referred to the commentors on this post. I'm going based off living on Long Island for 15 years and personally knowing teachers, and being taught by many LI teachers, who have almost all complained to me at one time or another about their salaries.
Because money doesn't equal quality. I had some pretty awful teachers in the LI public school system. Yes, they did complain openly in front of the students. I can only imagine how much whining went on in the faculty rooms. Hard working, dedicated teachers were the exception rather than the norm. I remember one particular teacher who never even taught! She handed out an essay/ditto at the beginning of the class and then hung out with the students for the rest of the class. One day she freaked out that she was going to be observed, so we all had to play along as she put on a horse and pony show of trying to put on a traditional class. Not that it even matters, anyway. Most of them have are protected by the corrupt tenure system. Short of getting caught in a To Catch The Predator sting, they are practically immune from discipline and any accountability.
Nurses cannot in any way be compared to teachers. Nurses actually earn their money and any mistake they make is carefully scrutinized.
There is so much truth in this! The attitudes of the parents and teachers are reflected in the future attitudes and behavior of the students. Yes, Long Island produces many Ivy Leaguers and athletes, but it also produces many drug addicts and self-entitled whiners with parents who bail them out of trouble until they can't anymore. Not to say that other areas don't have issues, or that Long Island schools are bad, but after attending LI schools myself I'm not eager to ever move here or raise children here.
Many of my teachers would spend half the year whining about either their salaries or whatever political view of theirs they wanted to push down our throats. Last I checked, educators are supposed to remain impartial when it comes to politics (at least in the presence of students); this was NEVER the case in my high school. If you didn't agree with a teacher's liberal POV, your grades suffered. Teachers hit on students, played favorites, and unfairly graded others.
I did have some amazing, excellent teachers that have inspired me even to this day. But they were the exception, NOT the rule.
I have no idea whether a consolidation of districts would save money. Common sense dictates, however, that the premise that 1 guy can do what 127 people currently do is a false one.
We have 1 President of the United States don't we? Maybe we should get 127 Presidents to lessen the load?
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"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
We have 1 President of the United States don't we? Maybe we should get 127 Presidents to lessen the load?
Kinda how it was supposed to be with states and governors.
Then the stupid Feds kept taking more control and sticking their nose where it doesn't necessarily belong.
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