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Now he has two drainage hoses plugging into a large PVC waste pipe (both connections are heavily sealed around the edges with serious goop).
If by waste pipe you mean his house's waste line (connected to either a sewer or septic system), he'll have to un-seal those connections if/when he wants to sell the house, because a direct connection of a condensate line to a waste line is against code in most places. Connections like that are supposed to be indirect (with an air gap) and with a P-trap.
On a practical level, with the sealed/direct connection he is gambling that he will never have a waste line backup. If he does, that "stuff" will also back up right through the condensate lines and into his dehumidifier and/or furnace, thus ruining both. Just sayin' ....
On the other hand, if that PVC pipe is just going out to the exterior somewhere and not part of the house's actual waste line, he's fine.
If by waste pipe you mean his house's waste line (connected to either a sewer or septic system), he'll have to un-seal those connections if/when he wants to sell the house, because a direct connection of a condensate line to a waste line is against code in most places. Connections like that are supposed to be indirect (with an air gap) and with a P-trap.
On a practical level, with the sealed/direct connection he is gambling that he will never have a waste line backup. If he does, that "stuff" will also back up right through the condensate lines and into his dehumidifier and/or furnace, thus ruining both. Just sayin' ....
On the other hand, if that PVC pipe is just going out to the exterior somewhere and not part of the house's actual waste line, he's fine.
As I noted in my post " I am not a plumber so I may not be properly describing the location of precisely where the condensate lines plug into the waste drain line. Your experience may vary, of course." Don't know if it is indirect and trapped.
Practically speaking, where should the condensation line exiting the furnace pump exit the basement? My observation was that my friend connected the line exiting the dehumidifier pump in the same precise manner. (Granted, you may not have a properly installed and connected furnace condensation line in your basement to mimic as my friend did.).
Last edited by Quick Commenter; 08-15-2018 at 10:30 AM..
We have always had oil heat (which is common here in the Northeast) and so there's no condensate line in the heating system. Maybe someone here who has gas heat can chime in with what their condensate drain setup is like.
Maybe the PVC pipe to which the condensate lines are directly attached then continues on to the waste line and connects to that via the indirect method.
Usually the state or local plumbing code will contain something like this, which is in the IPC (International Plumbing Code):
"802.1.5 Nonpotable clear-water waste.
Where devices and equipment such as process tanks, filters, drips and boilers discharge nonpotable water to the building drainage system, the discharge shall be through an indirect waste pipe by means of
an air break or an air gap. "
The above only applies to a connection to the building/house waste system. You can do a direct (sealed) connection if the line is simply going directly to the outdoors.
I hate the idea of a dehumidifier because I've known several people whose units (a) died after only a year, (b) dramatically increased their electric bill, (c) flooded their basement because the shutoff failed, or (d) flooded their basement because either the drain hose leaked or the built-in pump failed. Going down there (exterior entrance only) several times a day to haul up a bucket and carry it out into the yard for dumping is NOT an option.
No floor drain or plumbing fixtures in the basement. The waste line is about 4 ft off the floor, so my plan is to get one of those 2-shelf steel shelving units, put a dehumidifier on the upper shelf, a Little Giant condensate pump on the lower shelf, and then run the condensate line to ... where?
IMO, that's not a good plan.
I've had one flood in my basement over the years. It was due to the HVAC system condensation pump failing. Your situation is potentially worse since a dehumidifier can generate much more water in a shorter time.
I have a dehumidifier in my finished basement and one in another property in an unfinished basement. The unfinished basement property is not occupied all the time, so something that could cause a flood situation is especially problematic.
I have had good success with both of these units:
Danby DDR60A3GP 60 Pint Dehumidifier with Pump
Winix 851
The Winix ran almost continuous for two years before I had any trouble. Even though the problem was due to construction issues (dust clogged everything up) Winix replaced it with a new unit under warranty at no cost. The replacement has been running continuously for about five years now without a hiccup.
The Darby has also been running for almost five years without a problem.
Both units have a built-in pump. They also have a failsafe. If the pump fails, the "bucket" fills and turns off the machine when filled (working same as a unit without a pump).
In the finished basement house, I have the unit next to my furnace room. I run the tube into the room and out through a 1/4" hole I drilled - right next the HVAC unit's condensation pump tube.
In the unfinished home, the tube drains into the outlet for the washing machine drain. If that wasn't an option, drilling a small hole to drain the tube to the exterior would have been simple.
You can drain into a waste line. You just need to be careful how you do it. If you have a drain of some type for a washer you can use that. If you are thinking of cutting into the main drain for the house, it is probably a better idea to involve a plumber.
Oh, I would definitely go the plumber route for sure. I practically have him on speed-dial, LOL
There are no drains or fixtures anywhere in the basement. Just the house's waste line. The clothes washer is on the first floor, not in the basement.
My theory on having two separate appliances (dehumidifier without built-in pump, plus Little Giant condensate pump) is that if the dehumidifier dies I'll still have a working Little Giant, and if the Little Giant should fail, the dehumidifier's full-bucket safety shutoff SHOULD shut the dehumidifier down. The reason for the shelf is so that gravity will more easily drain the water from the dehumidifier down into the condensate pump, which will then lift it up again to either the waste line or to an exit at the top of the basement wall. Not much difference in "lift" between them: the waste line is about 4 ft above the floor and the basement ceiling is 7 ft.
There will be a drain pan and a water alarm below the dehumidifier-and-pump setup for sure, though. Just in case the pump AND the dehumidifier's full-bucket-shutoff should both fail.
But I figure the chance of one combined (dehumifier/pump) appliance failing is greater than two separate appliances failing at the same time. There's probably a Murphy's Law about that somewhere, LOL
My theory on having two separate appliances (dehumidifier without built-in pump, plus Little Giant condensate pump) is that if the dehumidifier dies I'll still have a working Little Giant, and if the Little Giant should fail, the dehumidifier's full-bucket safety shutoff SHOULD shut the dehumidifier down. The reason for the shelf is so that gravity will more easily drain the water from the dehumidifier down into the condensate pump, which will then lift it up again to either the waste line or to an exit at the top of the basement wall. Not much difference in "lift" between them: the waste line is about 4 ft above the floor and the basement ceiling is 7 ft.
There will be a drain pan and a water alarm below the dehumidifier-and-pump setup for sure, though. Just in case the pump AND the dehumidifier's full-bucket-shutoff should both fail.
But I figure the chance of one combined (dehumifier/pump) appliance failing is greater than two separate appliances failing at the same time. There's probably a Murphy's Law about that somewhere, LOL
I'm likely not fully understanding your setup. For the dehumidifiers I am familiar with, you would be bypassing the built-in bucket (and associated shut off) by using a different drainage method. Either way, how would the drain know that the external pump has failed so it can switch to the bucket?
Regarding failure, yes, the chance of one failing is greater than two failing at the same time. However, with a separate pump, only that one item needs to fail to cause a problem. The dehumidifier will continue to send water because it has no idea the pump has failed, been unplugged or even be removed. With a built-in pump, the unit is designed to work together. A broken pump will cause the bucket to fill (or shut the unit down) before an overflow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocafeller05
The post above is referring to the "furnace" with a condensate pump is probably a A coil in the ductwork for air conditioning.
And secondly you always add a cut off switch in the condensate drain pan of a AC unit incase of pump failure. Always.
I agree with you in concept. My experience has been "never" in practice. In the past 10 years I have seen four separate installs/upgrades of systems with condensate pumps. All done by quality, licensed plumbers. NONE have installed a cut off switch. (Unless I misunderstand your point - the drain pan is in the unit, the pump is separate and on the floor. Similar to this: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Little-G...Fc5aDAodYocA4g )
Like the above situation, the drain pan will continue to gravity feed water to the pump via a hose. It has no way to know if the pump is working or not. I also can't see an obvious method of connecting one of these pumps to a cut off switch).
I'm not claiming they are right. Just pointing out the reality.
For a simple dehumidifier situation where one wants to avoid constant bucket changes, I personally think that dehumidifier + separate pump + drain pan + water alarms + cutoff switch is seriously overthinking the situation. IMO, it makes more sense to simply buy a single dehumidifier unit with a built-in pump.
Easier. Less expensive. Simpler to set up. Simpler to maintain. Less to go wrong.
Of course, there's nothing wrong with doing it a more complicated way.
Edited to add: some looking and I see there are condensate pumps that do include an overflow safety that can be wired into the HVAC system. Great idea, yes. Makes me wonder why they are not more common. I would still have to wonder how easy that would be to wire into a typical consumer dehumidifier - if it can be done at all.
Actually (although I have just begun the process of dehumidifier-shopping; I hope to settle on one by the weekend) from what I'm seeing so far, the ones with the built-in pump are more expensive than the combo of non-pumping plus an external condensate pump like the Little Giant. Either that or the cost comes out to essentially the same.
As far as performance and reliability ratings, though I haven't gone through every model yet, it does seem that in the 70-pint capacity the non-pumping ones seem to have better overall reviews. But that's still a work in progress.
When you get into the weeds on the specs of dehumidifiers, you discover that none of them have the CFM that's needed to quickly dehumidify a 1300 sq ft basement that has a 7 foot ceiling. By doing the math, a space that size that is moderately damp (averaging between 60% and 70% humidity) needs a unit that can process at least 400 cubic feet of air per minute through it (it's actually more like 440). Your typical 70 pint model has a CFM of slightly below 200, and even the 95 pint ones (from the Frigidaire at $500 to the AprilAire at $1200) don't even crack 250. No wonder people complain that their dehumidifier is running all the time.
I was surprised to see that the commercial/industrial dehumidifiers used by companies like ServPro etc etc have CFMs that are only in the 200s. I'd expect those to be over 300 cfm, but they're not. Ya learn something new every day, lol
Incudes some commentary on freezing issues when water is pumped outside.
(These pumps are very commonly used in basements with today's high efficiency gas hot air furnaces (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tinlsz4wCTM see 1:39 to 1:45) and also with AC units and dehumidifiers.)
Last edited by Quick Commenter; 08-16-2018 at 08:16 AM..
The unit in this example is only a 35 pint so for the heavier 70 pint models it might be better to just raise it up on a few cinder blocks instead.
(2) That guy's got way too many 45-degree angles in that exterior piping run of his but I can see why he has to do it if he wants it to empty into the driveway. For my situation I'd rather have the interior pipe run terminate in a frost-free hose bib (spigot) instead. It will come out onto a brick patio but because I want the water carried away from the house, I'll run a 6 or 8 foot length of garden hose straight out from the spigot to a nearby flowerbed; because I doubt the unit will be running during the winter, I'll remove the hose, leave the spigot open and stick a cheap bucket underneath it just in case.
The guy in the video sounds (from his accent) like he's in Massachusetts and so I'm curious as to how he keeps that exterior PVC line from freezing; it definitely isn't below the frost line, looks like it just has a layer of mulch over it.
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